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[00:59:26] Nick change: trygvis_ -> trygvis [01:35:16] DracoBlue (~Adium@ip-vlan-obckunde-02-217-66-60-14.pixelpark.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds [01:48:29] akashra: I find jersey to be quite all right, what's your gripe with it? [01:48:40] I've done lots of stuff in scala and unfiltered lately, that's even better [02:08:26] mephju (~mephju@dslb-188-103-190-077.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #rest. [02:12:37] KevBurnsJr_ (~KevBurnsJ@c-67-164-98-121.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 248 seconds [02:18:49] KevBurnsJr (~KevBurnsJ@c-67-164-98-121.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #rest. [02:26:09] DracoBlue (~Adium@ip-vlan-obckunde-02-217-66-60-14.pixelpark.net) joined #rest. [02:28:00] DracoBlue (~Adium@ip-vlan-obckunde-02-217-66-60-14.pixelpark.net) left #rest. [02:48:08] mr_yall (~mryall@host86-171-192-152.range86-171.btcentralplus.com) joined #rest. [02:56:48] mamund: what's with all you microsoft guys drinking the node.js kool-aid ? [02:57:41] javascript is a totally retarded language, node is a hacked together runtime [02:58:42] writing non-blocking code is a ball-ache [02:59:37] and the web is pretty much designed to let us optimise 'inefficient'/blocking backends with stuff like caching anyway [03:00:25] I get the "everything is going to be javascript in the future maaan" argument [03:00:34] is that the main argument ? [03:32:58] mhausenblas (~mhausenbl@wg1-nat.fwgal01.deri.ie) joined #rest. [04:06:25] DracoBlue (~Adium@ip-vlan-obckunde-02-217-66-60-14.pixelpark.net) joined #rest. [04:06:36] DracoBlue (~Adium@ip-vlan-obckunde-02-217-66-60-14.pixelpark.net) left #rest. [04:25:06] Hakon|mbp (~hakon1@130.82-134-26.bkkb.no) joined #rest. [04:41:09] mhausenblas (~mhausenbl@wg1-nat.fwgal01.deri.ie) left irc: Quit: mhausenblas [04:44:00] mhausenblas (~mhausenbl@wlan-nat.fwgal01.deri.ie) joined #rest. [05:04:24] mr_yall (~mryall@host86-171-192-152.range86-171.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds [05:16:56] mephju (~mephju@dslb-188-103-190-077.pools.arcor-ip.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds [05:22:40] mephju (~mephju@dslb-188-103-194-052.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #rest. [05:24:18] mk_: Microsoft are seeking legitimacy on the web ;-) [05:24:31] :| [05:24:40] good luck with that. [05:24:55] mk_: I'm assuming you saw mnot's announcement last night? [05:25:04] yeah [05:25:16] will watch that closely, like to be involved in it [05:25:28] hopefully I can fix Roy's fuck up re: partial PUT [05:25:39] what an idiot, right?!!?!! [05:25:40] hahaha! That;s what I was thinking... [05:26:21] I'm thinking of starting to push for a safe request with a body [05:26:37] I'm sure I saw a proposal for that recently [05:26:45] Not sure whether I should go with GET with body or SAFEPOST :-) [05:27:03] I think subbu posted it to twitte [05:27:09] Httpbis has relaxed the wording around GETs with bodies. [05:27:20] oh maybe that was it [05:27:25] Not exactly endorsing it, but not condoning it either. [05:28:09] yeah I think people are au-fait with HTTP enough to not do to omuch Stupid Shit with it [05:28:53] It seems that debate is happening now on the ietf-http-wg group list. "We want big change" "No, we want little change".... [05:29:24] I really think the HTTP guys need to grab the browser vendors by the nuts [05:29:38] and force them to do it properly this time [05:29:49] Really. Time to reign in those egos. [05:30:11] I'd like to work with Mark on upgrading all the caching stuff in http [05:52:36] mephju (~mephju@dslb-188-103-194-052.pools.arcor-ip.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds [05:54:05] mephju (~mephju@dslb-188-103-190-155.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #rest. [06:12:35] bigbluehat1 (~bigblueha@adsl-98-71-132-42.gsp.bellsouth.net) joined #rest. [06:45:58] mr_yall`` (~mr_yall@scifo.mexico86.co.uk) joined #rest. [06:46:09] mr_yall`` (~mr_yall@scifo.mexico86.co.uk) left #rest ("Killed buffer"). [06:48:53] kke (~kimmo@46.19.32.53) joined #rest. [06:51:13] pezra (~Adium@webmail.openlogic.com) joined #rest. [07:05:28] bigbluehat1 (~bigblueha@adsl-98-71-132-42.gsp.bellsouth.net) left irc: Quit: Leaving. [07:11:52] mhausenblas (~mhausenbl@wlan-nat.fwgal01.deri.ie) left irc: Quit: mhausenblas [07:32:00] mhausenblas (~mhausenbl@wlan-nat.fwgal01.deri.ie) joined #rest. [07:32:54] I had to laugh out loud at the proposed one-year-to-HTTP/2.0 schedule [08:10:00] Action: fu-manchu sticks his nose into the 2.0 fray [08:13:12] phidah (~phidah@x1-6-e0-46-9a-98-00-b2.k1053.webspeed.dk) joined #rest. [08:19:50] mephju (~mephju@dslb-188-103-190-155.pools.arcor-ip.net) left irc: Quit: Ex-Chat [08:22:25] mhausenblas (~mhausenbl@wlan-nat.fwgal01.deri.ie) left irc: Quit: mhausenblas [08:33:23] mhausenblas (~mhausenbl@wlan-nat.fwgal01.deri.ie) joined #rest. [08:34:45] DracoBlue (~Adium@ip-vlan-obckunde-02-217-66-60-14.pixelpark.net) joined #rest. [08:43:40] Action: mamund sez 'yo' from SF [08:44:38] DracoBlue (~Adium@ip-vlan-obckunde-02-217-66-60-14.pixelpark.net) left #rest. [08:45:47] hoooly shit range-14 is going to get dragged up AGAIN [08:45:56] awesome. [08:46:06] what a complete and utter waste of fucking time. [08:46:27] oh hey mamund [08:50:36] hey [08:50:56] http://www.mkbergman.com/994/give-me-a-sign-what-do-things-mean-on-the-semantic-web/ [08:51:26] I really wish I was good enough at writing and had enough time [08:52:21] so I could write a book explaining why that semweb stuff misses the point so epically [08:52:22] wow, page is slow to load. [08:52:40] heh, probably getting raped [08:53:02] tl;dnr [08:54:13] looks like a re-hash here; nothing new i can see, can you? [08:54:32] well he actually wades into the philosophy of it all [08:54:36] which is fine [08:54:49] yeah, but that doesn't seem to bring anything new. [08:54:59] guess i'll have to actually _read_ the whole thing [08:55:01] just pick a good philosopher that doesn't talk potificated bollocks all the time [08:55:12] pontificated [08:55:35] in a nutshell, SemWeb fails since it's a 'top-down' approach instead of bottom-up [08:55:50] SemWeb fails because it takes it's conventions too seriously. [08:55:57] LOL [08:56:15] real life is messy, multi-layered, variant over time. [08:56:23] any language is a convention for getting-shit-done [08:56:29] :) [08:56:37] for mapping a territory.. [08:56:41] it's not a territory.. [08:56:49] so don't treat it like a territory [08:57:01] and don't keep pissing in the wind trying to make it behave like a territory [08:57:06] just use your map for something and stfu [08:57:21] yep was just thinking the same. [08:57:44] map-think is missing [08:58:01] timbl is a bloody physicist. [08:58:03] i think HTTP's representation model does a good job of supporting this map-thhink. [08:58:04] there is no hope. [08:58:22] well, it's more than timbl. [08:59:03] yeah [08:59:26] he's still semweb jesus though right ? [08:59:35] for many, yes [08:59:52] it's ridiculous there is no mention of fielding in that post. [09:00:39] since Fielding's httpRange-14 solution turned out to be "no solution" as far as the author is concerned. [09:04:08] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2002Jul/0090.html [09:04:26] 'nuff said. [09:06:03] yep, it's a classic [09:06:49] DracoBlue (~Adium@ip-vlan-obckunde-02-217-66-60-14.pixelpark.net) joined #rest. [09:06:52] DracoBlue (~Adium@ip-vlan-obckunde-02-217-66-60-14.pixelpark.net) left #rest. [09:07:08] i like the line "...the only reason this gives anyone in RDF land heartburn..." [09:09:20] :) [09:09:44] mamund: wtf have you guys been smoking over there?! [09:09:45] https://twitter.com/#!/sallamar/status/161855955125018625 [09:10:14] is that a reference to ql.io ? [09:11:14] ??? [09:11:53] aren't you at nodesummit with subbu atm ? [09:12:05] yeah, same place. not near subbu right now. [09:12:13] i think he's channeling the keynote here. [09:12:19] ah [09:12:30] you're not keynoting ? [09:12:37] lots of flowery talk about the future of the web as "everything is a node" [09:12:43] LOL [09:12:47] :D [09:12:49] lol [09:13:02] everything written in a shitty language as non-blocking code [09:13:10] SIGN ME UP TO THE FUTURE [09:13:11] :D [09:13:33] I actually really like node but I wouldnt use it to build a backend [09:13:47] so, the warm and fuzzy here is that "we can write using a single lang" and "we can abstract away OS, hardware (w/ PaaS)", etc. [09:14:26] it's nice that people are thinking that each _device_ is a commodity and that the _network_ is front and center. [09:14:52] well if the web taught us anything it's that this is not a requirement for a large scale system [09:14:52] but, IMO, this is not the group that will be at the forefront of "programming the network" [09:15:05] zackly [09:15:20] that's why i am pretty cynical about what's happening here this week [09:15:32] i _like_ node and the surrounding bits [09:15:46] mostly cuz it's reducing friction for daily work [09:16:02] but i don't see anything here that improves the web itself. [09:16:24] yeah but like.. [09:16:34] I can have 10000000000000000 connections ALL AT THE SAME TIME [09:17:06] and an arbitrary subset of those will wait 10000000000000000000 seconds to complete! progress! [09:17:13] all at the same time, at any time, in any comdo [09:17:23] fu-manchu: LOL [09:19:24] mamund: I wrote an ESI thing in node [09:19:31] it's Connect middleware [09:19:54] ah. make sense [09:20:12] except it's not ESI it's ESI-like thing for hal+json [09:20:14] and i have been using node as a connector/component bridge [09:20:14] ¬_¬ [09:20:19] :) [09:22:10] horrible to do in Connect/node though [09:22:43] cos connect is designed to always stream the response body out [09:22:53] yeah? [09:22:58] why is this a bummer for you [09:23:17] well ESI needs to suck up all the response and then do the transclusions [09:23:24] ahh, right [09:23:58] so the only way to do it is to monkey patch the response object and make it buffer in memory [09:24:09] pretty hairy but it does actually work [09:25:30] hmmmm [09:26:04] so you spool the response into a buffer then hook an event for the end of the stream? [09:26:12] Jarda (~jarda@narhinen.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 272 seconds [09:27:29] What public REST APIs do you consider to be best practise? I'd like some inspiration as to how it is documented and structured... [09:27:55] mhausenblas_ (~mhausenbl@wg1-nat.fwgal01.deri.ie) joined #rest. [09:29:13] mamund: pretty much, yeah [09:29:24] mhausenblas (~mhausenbl@wlan-nat.fwgal01.deri.ie) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds [09:29:24] Nick change: mhausenblas_ -> mhausenblas [09:29:27] phidah: if you're referring to Fielding's REST model (his 2001 dissertation), there are very few publicly implemented. [09:29:45] I should put it up on github I'm just not sure what state it is in :S [09:30:09] Fielding's REST is a _style_ and therefore few other people mimic that style "just like Fielding" [09:30:59] if someone walked into the room with the same style of rest api as me, i would leave! [09:31:06] however, i think several folks here have experience using Fielding's REST style as a guide for building apps and other tools. [09:31:07] :) [09:31:27] Hakon|mbp: :) [09:31:40] whartung (~whartung@wsip-98-189-78-118.oc.oc.cox.net) joined #rest. [09:31:55] Jarda (~jarda@narhinen.net) joined #rest. [09:31:55] o/ [09:31:56] phidah: so, while this might not be what you are looking for, i'd suggest asking a diff Q... [09:32:05] \o [09:32:51] as in "what are examples of the various elements of Fielding's REST that people use today for their apps?" [09:32:55] Okay, I'll rephrase. An API like, say, Flickr's - would that be a good aiming point or not? http://www.flickr.com/services/api/ [09:32:56] Yea, mamund only likes questions he can answer -- the others flummox him. [09:33:06] ! [09:34:27] phidah: i don't care for the flickr API because it is based on publishing a large set of URI templates. [09:34:51] i.e. it's "shite" [09:35:18] when i've used their API (some internal stuff), i actually designed a "flickr media type" that clients & servers use instead. [09:35:58] i posted some example apps that are based on hypermedia types rather than URIs, object-serialization, etc. [09:36:17] mamund's mission statement: "Reinventing the wheel, everyday!" ;) [09:36:24] lol. [09:36:46] you probably don't need to create a media type [09:36:47] hey, it's an "endless" process! [09:36:48] but look [09:37:03] if it makes you feel good, then do it [09:37:24] mk_ the internal flickr design used XHTML [09:37:34] cool [09:37:36] Can you give me an example? [09:38:41] http://amundsen.com/examples/misc/maze/maze-client.html [09:38:47] bwaha [09:38:48] :D [09:38:49] that's a page that implements an M2M client [09:39:05] 404 [09:39:14] freudian slip ? [09:40:01] ?? [09:40:07] that page 404's for me [09:40:11] huh [09:40:40] doh! [09:40:52] http://amundsen.com/examples/misc/maze-client.html [09:41:08] (can't paste in this stoopid window) [09:41:16] REST sucks -- SOAP would never send a bad url. [09:41:28] I blame Roy. [09:41:29] the client uses this media type design: [09:41:45] http://amundsen.com/media-types/maze/ [09:41:58] i think there is also the same domain implemented in HAL, right? [09:43:11] anyway, this is just an example of a way to implement an app w/o depending on publising a static set of URI templates [09:44:02] this same thing can be done w/ _any_ media type format that contain support for links. [09:50:31] phidah: so the only meaning diff between the implementation approach i used there and the one used byy flickr is the use of... [09:50:56] the message as the container (media type) for the API instead of the URI. [09:51:28] this is mentioned in the dissertation, but not at all widely used in public APIs. [09:52:11] ok, gonna need to take a break. will be back later today. [09:52:31] Action: mamund closes his laptop and heads for the snack table [10:01:47] hmm I would have an idea for a talk [10:01:53] now I would need a place to keep it on [10:02:36] "Want to write an API for your web app - you most likely already have" [10:02:55] +one [10:05:56] Hakon|mbp (~hakon1@130.82-134-26.bkkb.no) left irc: Quit: Leaving... [10:26:18] Hakon|mbp (~hakon1@193.137.202.84.customer.cdi.no) joined #rest. [10:30:05] DracoBlue (~Adium@dslb-088-075-211-024.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #rest. [10:30:28] DracoBlue (~Adium@dslb-088-075-211-024.pools.arcor-ip.net) left #rest. [10:31:20] mhausenblas (~mhausenbl@wg1-nat.fwgal01.deri.ie) left irc: Quit: brb [10:49:18] KevBurnsJr_ (~KevBurnsW@50.0.103.39) joined #rest. [10:56:34] Hakon|mbp (~hakon1@193.137.202.84.customer.cdi.no) left irc: Ping timeout: 252 seconds [11:05:46] bigbluehat (~bigblueha@adsl-98-71-132-42.gsp.bellsouth.net) joined #rest. 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[21:16:59] fu-manchu (~fumanchu@75-57-4-116.lightspeed.sndgca.sbcglobal.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 252 seconds [21:41:02] akashra (~akashra@830wd-74912-w.infodiv.unimelb.edu.au) left #rest. [22:16:19] NOKAH (~hakon1@2001:470:28:6e1:6d39:9016:2a69:d3c) left irc: Ping timeout: 252 seconds [22:28:48] fu-manchu (~fumanchu@adsl-99-30-180-185.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net) joined #rest. [00:00:00] --- Wed Jan 25 2012