[00:12:29] mhausenblas (~mhausenbl@188.141.67.15) left irc: Quit: mhausenblas [00:43:05] mhausenblas (~mhausenbl@wlan-nat.fwgal01.deri.ie) joined #rest. [00:43:55] mhausenblas_ (~mhausenbl@wg1-nat.fwgal01.deri.ie) joined #rest. [00:46:52] mhausenblas (~mhausenbl@wlan-nat.fwgal01.deri.ie) left irc: Read error: Operation timed out [00:46:52] Nick change: mhausenblas_ -> mhausenblas [00:52:42] iboB (~iboB@88.203.202.210) joined #rest. [00:54:03] hey i've found quite a lot of papers and articles about wadl vs wsdl2.0 to define the contract for a rest base service. can you please point me to a *good* one of some good ones [00:55:21] *or some good ones :) [01:07:36] quest88 (~quest88@c-98-207-205-137.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) left irc: Quit: quest88 [01:25:17] ssedano (~ssedano@unaffiliated/ssedano) joined #rest. [01:26:40] iboB: they don't exist [01:28:03] what does 'contract' really mean in an evolvable application [01:41:55] well mk_ design by contract is not that bad. If i have a description of all the communication betweeen a web service and it's clients i can generate boilerplate client code, based on it [01:42:03] *its [01:42:39] you or your clients ? [01:48:18] well let's say my clients [01:56:45] DracoBlue (~Adium@dslb-088-075-211-024.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #rest. [01:56:58] DracoBlue (~Adium@dslb-088-075-211-024.pools.arcor-ip.net) left #rest. [02:16:43] mephju (~mephju@dslb-188-102-021-216.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #rest. [02:24:35] iboB: creating REST applications is quite different from creating WS-* applications [02:47:24] generating clients is #fail [02:55:29] well, sort of [02:56:04] but then again it's not a bad thing as long as you do it the right way [03:11:44] I haven't seen anyone do it right [03:11:55] or even propose a way that it might be done 'right' [03:12:54] in REST terms thinking about contracts and boilerplate is a pointless attempt to make fixity out of flux [03:17:19] if you clients are really demanding this stuff then you are probably better off picking some RPC/SOAP technology that was designed with boilerplating in mind [03:28:12] if your clients are mobile devices it's much easier to use rest [03:28:49] a code-generation tool could prepare tests, documentation, and more [03:31:07] :) [03:32:03] iboB: are you sure mobile makes it easier to do REST vs RPC? [03:37:41] couldn't rest be viewed as a type of rpc?... [03:37:47] or are you talking about xmlrpc [03:41:39] REST isn't RPC [04:03:57] REST is to RPC as a car is to a mobile home [04:04:11] ....ish [04:10:51] Hakon|mbp (~hakon1@130.82-134-26.bkkb.no) joined #rest. [04:23:27] http://www.ics.uci.edu/~fielding/pubs/dissertation/evaluation.htm#sec_6_5_2 [04:51:28] Hakon|mbp (~hakon1@130.82-134-26.bkkb.no) left irc: Remote host closed the connection [05:00:14] mhausenblas (~mhausenbl@wg1-nat.fwgal01.deri.ie) left irc: Quit: mhausenblas [05:03:07] Hakon|mbp (~hakon1@130.82-134-26.bkkb.no) joined #rest. [05:26:07] darrelmiller (~darrelmil@70.24.176.12) left irc: Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~ [05:26:31] darrelmiller (~darrelmil@70.24.176.12) joined #rest. [05:27:23] Nice to see everyone in fine form this morning. Nothing like a little REST vs RPC sparring to start the day. [05:28:03] network API, bitches! [05:30:33] Ngarthl: I've been working on an analogy that compares HTTP/REST/SOAP etc to transportation, vehicles, road and rail infrastructure, so your comparison was interesting... [05:38:46] mhausenblas (~mhausenbl@wlan-nat.fwgal01.deri.ie) joined #rest. [05:39:20] mhausenblas_ (~mhausenbl@wg1-nat.fwgal01.deri.ie) joined #rest. [05:43:04] mhausenblas (~mhausenbl@wlan-nat.fwgal01.deri.ie) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds [05:43:04] Nick change: mhausenblas_ -> mhausenblas [05:47:21] sbanwart (~sbanwart@66.6.175.18) joined #rest. [05:55:09] bigbluehat1 (~bigblueha@nmd.sbx08595.greensc.wayport.net) joined #rest. [06:17:16] pezra (~Adium@208.77.204.4) joined #rest. [06:20:19] iboB: I am somewhat new to this, but have recently discovered that if one creates a REST web service, then there is very little contract to have to communicate to the client [06:20:43] iboB: in the past I was used to creating client-side service interfaces that mirror the server -side ones [06:20:51] and client side domain objects that mirror server side ones [06:21:04] but I don't think I'll be doing that anymore [06:22:00] my REST service is much more domain agnostic now, and all the URL's my client needs to know to get the next piece of data from the server are in the payload from server's previous call [06:22:44] so instead of 50+ domain classes, my client needs to know 6-8, and instead of 15*7=100+ service methods, my client needs to know 5-10 [06:23:06] it's not perfect, but they are much more loosly coupled...and perhaps that is the point [06:23:48] but I will also tell you I could have accomplished the same objectives with SOAP....it just never occurred to me... [06:28:42] hdave (~hdave@static-71-245-233-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) left irc: Quit: Leaving. [06:31:04] hdave (~hdave@static-71-245-233-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) joined #rest. [06:31:35] hdave (~hdave@static-71-245-233-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) left #rest. [06:32:09] hdave (~hdave@static-71-245-233-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) joined #rest. [06:32:52] DracoBlue (~Adium@dslb-088-075-211-024.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #rest. [06:35:36] mhausenblas (~mhausenbl@wg1-nat.fwgal01.deri.ie) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds [06:35:49] DracoBlue (~Adium@dslb-088-075-211-024.pools.arcor-ip.net) left #rest. [06:49:12] bigbluehat1 (~bigblueha@nmd.sbx08595.greensc.wayport.net) left #rest. [06:49:38] bigbluehat1 (~bigblueha@nmd.sbx08595.greensc.wayport.net) joined #rest. [07:12:34] thanks for that, hdave [07:13:28] bigbluehat1 (~bigblueha@nmd.sbx08595.greensc.wayport.net) left irc: Quit: Leaving. [07:21:28] iboB: no problem. It took me a while to get my head around it, but if you WADL is needed for RPC/HTTP. [07:22:00] I like my RPC/HTTP api better than my SOAP one because it makes better use of HTTP (which is the only transport I think I'll ever need)...but it's not REST [07:23:04] I have a new truly REST API under construction, but the WADL says nothing....all the client programmer needs is a few pages of documentation and an fairly small XML schema to go with my media type. [07:27:31] phidah (~phidah@95.209.237.121.bredband.3.dk) joined #rest. [07:46:40] pezra (~Adium@208.77.204.4) left irc: Quit: Leaving. [07:56:33] dreinull (dreieins@217.18.70.225) left #rest. [08:08:16] iboB (~iboB@88.203.202.210) left irc: [08:13:59] KevBurnsJr (~KevBurnsJ@c-67-164-98-121.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #rest. [08:44:21] o/ [08:58:25] ¬_¬ [09:06:20] coffee is --> mk_ [09:06:38] green tea [09:06:41] good idea, though [09:19:32] KevBurnsJr_ (~KevBurnsW@50.0.103.39) joined #rest. [09:20:32] pezra (~Adium@webmail.openlogic.com) joined #rest. [09:28:21] mephju (~mephju@dslb-188-102-021-216.pools.arcor-ip.net) left irc: Quit: Ex-Chat [09:36:19] Hakon|mbp (~hakon1@130.82-134-26.bkkb.no) left irc: Ping timeout: 252 seconds [10:21:21] bigbluehat1 (~bigblueha@adsl-98-71-132-42.gsp.bellsouth.net) joined #rest. [10:28:44] darrelmiller: yeah, it was just an attempt. dunno if it works [10:32:53] in terms of scalability maybe this is better: "REST is to RPC as a 747 is to a Cessna 195" [10:53:20] RPC is like train travel. You have to agree to your origin and destination ahead of time. All stops are also pre-determined ahead of time. The track is expensive and hard to lay. The actually movement of people & goods is fast and easy, but the train engine is very expensive and complex...lots can go wrong. [10:54:02] first form of mass transit was by trains [10:55:46] simplicity vs easy. REST is simple, but hard to get right. RPC is complex, but easy to get started with. RPC complects the problem domain. [10:55:58] REST is like roads and cars. Roads are everywhere....compared to train track they are cheap to build. There are no starts and stops. There need be no plan to travel other than the goal (food, fun, visits, etc.). It gives HUGE flexibility in the vehicle choice. And you can choose which way to do every time you make a stop. [10:57:11] REST is like a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell baad... [10:58:37] trains are more successful when you have a limited set of end points and massive quanitities of cargo [10:58:59] they are not so good for consumers who want lots of choice and have only a few bags [10:59:04] complecting has indeed become a favourite word ;) thank you Rich Hickey [10:59:53] i'd guess the world has spend 1,000x more on automobile/road infrastructure than train infrastructure [11:00:04] its easier to start with trains [11:00:17] but they don' [11:00:19] t scale [11:00:41] cars on roads are simple, but its very hard to get to that point [11:01:32] Action: Ngarthl is contemplating writing up a spec for doing filtering on search responses. [11:08:24] breerly (~Adium@50.0.103.39) joined #rest. [11:08:30] hi there [11:09:27] breerly: you can catch up on the last 2 years of chat here in the logs: http://rest.hackyhack.net [11:09:38] holy shit [11:09:43] *bookmarked* [11:19:54] kschults (~kschults@50.0.103.34) joined #rest. [11:20:01] kschults (~kschults@50.0.103.34) left #rest. [11:22:35] KevBurnsJr (~KevBurnsJ@c-67-164-98-121.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds [11:22:40] KevBurnsJr (~KevBurnsJ@75.94.139.232) joined #rest. [11:54:11] Nick change: bigbluehat1 -> bigbluehat [11:57:23] KevBurnsJr (~KevBurnsJ@75.94.139.232) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer [11:58:08] KevBurnsJr (~KevBurnsJ@c-67-164-98-121.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #rest. [12:08:05] Hakon|mbp (~hakon1@193.137.202.84.customer.cdi.no) joined #rest. [12:50:52] railbait_lite (~railbait_@outgoing.norman.wdtinc.com) left irc: [13:03:06] Hakon|mbp (~hakon1@193.137.202.84.customer.cdi.no) left irc: Read error: Operation timed out [13:23:02] phidah (~phidah@95.209.237.121.bredband.3.dk) left irc: Quit: phidah [13:56:19] phidah (~phidah@x1-6-e0-46-9a-98-00-b2.k1053.webspeed.dk) joined #rest. [14:13:04] KevBurnsJr (~KevBurnsJ@c-67-164-98-121.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds [14:13:40] KevBurnsJr (~KevBurnsJ@75.94.139.232) joined #rest. [14:17:47] phidah (~phidah@x1-6-e0-46-9a-98-00-b2.k1053.webspeed.dk) left irc: Quit: phidah [14:20:13] bigbluehat (~bigblueha@adsl-98-71-132-42.gsp.bellsouth.net) left irc: Quit: Leaving. [14:37:25] sbanwart (~sbanwart@66.6.175.18) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds [15:38:42] akashra (~akashra@830wd-74912-w.infodiv.unimelb.edu.au) joined #rest. [15:51:04] Any suggestions on what the easiest API is for building REST responses is in Java? Jersey just makes it soooo difficult :( [16:13:27] pezra (~Adium@webmail.openlogic.com) left irc: Quit: Leaving. [16:16:19] fu-manchu (~fumanchu@adsl-99-30-180-185.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 272 seconds [16:16:22] fu-manchu (~fumanchu@adsl-99-30-180-185.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net) joined #rest. [16:21:32] Action: mamund takes a peek into the room [16:22:06] Jarda (~jarda@narhinen.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 272 seconds [16:22:12] Jarda (~jarda@narhinen.net) joined #rest. [16:25:26] KevBurnsJr_: hey, i'm at atlassian right now! [16:27:10] Jarda (~jarda@narhinen.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 272 seconds [16:27:26] Jarda (~jarda@narhinen.net) joined #rest. [16:44:05] sbanwart (~sbanwart@99-177-126-136.lightspeed.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net) joined #rest. [16:53:37] sbanwart_ (~sbanwart@99-177-126-136.lightspeed.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net) joined #rest. [16:54:08] sbanwart (~sbanwart@99-177-126-136.lightspeed.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds [17:01:14] mamund: o hai! [17:01:38] sbanwart_ (~sbanwart@99-177-126-136.lightspeed.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net) left irc: Remote host closed the connection [17:03:14] wow crazy, i had no idea that green warehouse was Atlassian [17:04:06] What are you doint at Atlassian? [17:04:11] *doing [17:04:29] sbanwart_ (~sbanwart@99-177-126-136.lightspeed.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net) joined #rest. [17:04:56] hanging w/ the Cloud9IDE guys. [17:05:06] doing a book project based on their dev tool [17:05:52] just soaking up as much geek-juice as i can this week [17:08:33] nodie [17:10:54] :) [17:12:12] I assume you're busy tonight w/ meet n' greets. [17:12:14] Hit me up when you want to grab a beer [17:28:47] Nick change: sbanwart_ -> sbanwart [18:03:55] KevBurnsJr_ (~KevBurnsW@50.0.103.39) left irc: Quit: pew pew :: cowboy coder hits the road [18:14:09] sbanwart (~sbanwart@99-177-126-136.lightspeed.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net) left irc: Remote host closed the connection [18:19:46] sbanwart (~sbanwart@99-177-126-136.lightspeed.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net) joined #rest. [18:49:45] sbanwart (~sbanwart@99-177-126-136.lightspeed.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net) left irc: Remote host closed the connection [18:54:28] sbanwart (~sbanwart@99-177-126-136.lightspeed.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net) joined #rest. [21:41:24] sbanwart (~sbanwart@99-177-126-136.lightspeed.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 245 seconds [21:56:04] KevBurnsJr_ (~KevBurnsJ@c-67-164-98-121.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #rest. [22:00:09] KevBurnsJr (~KevBurnsJ@75.94.139.232) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds [23:09:04] akashra: It depends on what you need. [00:00:00] --- Tue Jan 24 2012