#rest on irc.freenode.net 2011-12-23 (txt)

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[06:13] mamund is baaaaack
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[08:48] <saml> let's say there is an image /foo/bar.jpg and there are small crops of the image. could they be /foo/bar.jpg/100x34.jpg ?
[08:48] <saml> or should i treat crops or thumbnails as different image
[08:48] <trygvis> that really, really doesn't matter
[08:49] <trygvis> they already are different resources as they have different URLs
[08:49] <whartung> yea that's a matter of taste
[08:49] <saml> i see. thanks.
[08:49] <trygvis> you can provide links from the first image to scaled versions, but that's a bit nasty
[08:49] <saml> like /foo/bar.jpg?thumbnails
[08:50] <whartung> but is a smaller (not cropped) version of an image simply a different representation of the same resource? There's a noggin scratcher
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[08:51] <trygvis> whartung: I can't find a way in which that would they could be the same resource unless there's a image/* type that include resolution
[08:51] <saml> business considers cropped, transparent background, color corrected as different representation of the same resource.
[08:51] <trygvis> or I guess you can always include a header and use Vary
[08:51] <whartung> yea, I dunno how to represent it via a media type either trygvis
[08:51] <trygvis> I doubt your "business" and the "http" folks have the same definition of "resource"
[08:52] <whartung> but I was curious what a good URL would be, much like what saml is asking.
[08:52] <trygvis> if the app that store the images also can scale them I'd probably implement /foo.png?width=100
[08:52] <whartung> on the one hand, you can do img.jpg?h=100&w=100
[08:52] <mamund> saml: {"link": {"href":"...", "rel":"cropped"}}
[08:52] <trygvis> it doesn't matter really, it's more important how the client knows how to request the image
[08:53] <whartung> but I'm not sure if urls with query parameters cache properly.
[08:53] <mamund> focus on the rel token and not the actual URI
[08:53] <trygvis> you could do something like what mamund with a URI template too
[08:53] <mamund> then you can do whatever you like at any time in the future w/o breaking anything
[08:53] <trygvis> whartung: my experience show that they do, even with the current caches
[08:53] <whartung> ok, then I'd be most comfortable with a query param rather than trying to create a new resource namespace.
[08:53] <trygvis> but when you start to add Vary and stuff tings might break
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[08:54] <whartung> yea I wanted something that works with the BDB model (Brain Dead Browsers)
[08:54] <trygvis> but mamund is right, it's the relation that's important
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[08:54] <saml> we're doing it this way: http://www.vanityfair.com/dam/hollywood/2012/lady-gaga.jpg http://www.vanityfair.com/dam/hollywood/2012/lady-gaga.jpg/jcr:content/renditions/cq5dam.thumbnail.319.319.png
[08:55] <mamund> saml: nothing wrong w/ that, IMO.
[08:55] <trygvis> that's as fine as almost any other URL :)
[08:55] <mamund> yep
[08:56] <saml> mamund, what is that json?
[08:56] <whartung> yea, that's nice saml
[08:57] <saml> http://www.vanityfair.com/dam/hollywood/2012/lady-gaga.jpg/jcr:content/renditions.tidy.1.json
[08:57] <mamund> yeah, but you can do the same w/ XML or any other format
[08:58] <mamund> the point is to use a token (rel, etc.) to identify the URI
[08:58] <mamund> then coach servers to always send that token
[08:58] <mamund> and train clients to loook for that token
[08:59] <mamund> then you don't crate any coupling to the actual URI
[08:59] <trygvis> this kinda itches though, the rel doesn't say anything about *how much* it should it cropped
[08:59] trygvis brings out the uri template stick
[09:00] <saml> mamund, what url will out put that json?
[09:00] <mamund> ???
[09:00] <mamund> not sure i understand the Q
[09:00] <saml> i mean, GET /foo/image.jpg will reeturn {"link": {"href":"...", "rel":"cropped"}} ?
[09:01] <mamund> no
[09:01] <mamund> what i was talking about is how you represent the link when you _first_ send it to the client
[09:01] <mamund> not the response to the image GET
[09:02] <mamund> does that make sense?
[09:02] <mamund> do you use JSON format in your messages? XML? HTML?
[09:04] <saml> oh. it's not really a rest system. browsers are only clients. so mostly html and json
[09:04] <saml> so, the client will assemble URL for "cropped" rendition
[09:04] <mamund> so, how does the client get the URIs?
[09:04] <mamund> in JSON?
[09:05] <saml> for example, json["link"]["href"] + "/" + json["link"]["rel"]
[09:05] <saml> <img src="...">
[09:05] <mamund> ok
[09:05] <mamund> hmmm
[09:05] <mamund> well, what does a response look like (not the code to parse it)
[09:06] <saml> maybe i misled. i was wondering if renditions should be under /foo/bar.jpg or some completely different url such as /renditions/foo/bar/1.jpg
[09:07] <saml> but i guess it does not matter
[09:07] <mamund> anyway, my only point (which may not be intersting to you right now)....
[09:07] <mamund> is to include names for all links and make sure client code looks for names, not links.
[09:07] <mamund> <img src="" class="cropped" />
[09:07] <mamund> etc.
[09:08] <mamund> it's a style suggestion, that's all.
[09:08] <mamund> btw, this renditions response...
[09:08] <mamund> what is it used for?
[09:08] <mamund> to tell clients what possible renditions are avail for an image?
[09:09] <saml> no. i'm just trying to figure out "proper" way to store images and their renditions. static server will serve them
[09:09] <mamund> hmmm...
[09:09] <saml> there is no need to get a list of renditions for an image at the moment.
[09:09] <mamund> ok
[09:10] <mamund> huh, what is that JSON then?
[09:10] <saml> it's what the server we use do by default
[09:11] <mamund> ahhh
[09:11] <mamund> so this is not reflected back to clients at all, just some internal representation.
[09:11] <saml> it's not necessary at all. given an url, you can change extention to .json, .xml, .pdf... etc and the server renders the resource accordingly
[09:11] <saml> yes
[09:11] <mamund> ok
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[13:01] mamund is all done for the day and the week. laters!
[13:01] <darrelmiller> Have a very merry christmas :-) And get lots of REST
[13:01] <darrelmiller> ...sorry, someone had to do it.
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[13:29] <pc1oad1etter> darrelmiller: This year I'm just giving my kids representations of their gifts
[13:29] <pc1oad1etter> Look son, that's what a basketball goal would look like if it were in our driveway
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[13:42] <fu-manchu> the basket itself would just be the current representation of the "athletic kid" resource
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[13:43] <darrelmiller> pc1oad1etter: Just have him take the blue pill.
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[13:59] <pc1oad1etter> ugh, sorry, guess they knew I was talking about them.
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[15:22] <Ngarthl> happy yuletide
[15:29] <whartung> you to Ngarthl
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[00:00] --- Sat Dec 24 2011