#rest on irc.freenode.net 2011-12-22 (txt)

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[07:52] mamund is here
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[08:53] <whartung> o/
[08:54] <mamund> \o
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[08:54] <darrelmiller> \o/
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[08:56] <mamund> \°\
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[09:30] <whartung> here ya go mikekelly: a synchronizer for JSON https://github.com/sayrer/json-sync
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[14:54] mamund thinks EricB is pushing the kitty analogies a bit too far
[14:56] <darrelmiller> I thought you had filtered his posts :-)
[14:56] <mamund> leaks into my RSS feed
[15:01] <darrelmiller> I love that post from Mike sucking up to Eric about getting feedback about hal LOL
[15:01] <mamund> erik wilde?
[15:01] <darrelmiller> noEricB
[15:01] <mamund> LOL
[15:03] <darrelmiller> I read threads like the one about REST and domain models and it amazes me how people say you can't do domain specific tasks without coupling on a domain. How do they think they are able to buy a book from amazon via a web browser?
[15:04] <mamund> yeha, i just let that one pass by
[15:04] <darrelmiller> And then they say, but I want to do m2m, and I think to myself, well what is a web browser if not a piece of software running on a machine.
[15:04] <mamund> LOL
[15:04] <mamund> my latest experiments using usability research as a starting point have touched in this very ide
[15:05] <darrelmiller> It's like we close our eyes to the web browser as just another web client and think that it is somehow completely different and special from any other client.
[15:05] <mamund> the whole "mapping a conceptual domain" to some set of affordances, etc.
[15:05] <mamund> yes, the browser is much maligned (even by me)
[15:06] <mamund> but folks don't clearly think about the differing _parts_ of what the browser does
[15:06] <mamund> they see it as one single thing
[15:06] <mamund> that slows folks down, i think.
[15:06] <darrelmiller> It's not that it is maligned but it seems to be special cased.
[15:06] <mamund> yeah, true
[15:06] <mamund> special cased as in "oh, you can't use that as an example"
[15:06] <darrelmiller> There is how the web browser does it and how the rest of us writing clients have to do it.
[15:07] <mamund> ;0
[15:07] <darrelmiller> With the presumption that we can't do it the same way.
[15:07] <mamund> BINGO
[15:07] mamund is sorry for teh caps
[15:07] <darrelmiller> They were appropriate :-)
[15:07] <mamund> he
[15:08] <darrelmiller> As an aside, before I leave to eat, I am knee deep a a very fat client project and it is amazing how much complexity and infrastructure code exists on the client to replicate the effects of HTTP caching.
[15:09] <mamund> yeah, caching is a true puzzle
[15:09] <darrelmiller> I keep looking at it saying, WinInetCache gives me that for free.
[15:09] <mamund> on windoze i gave up and use wininetcache
[15:09] <mamund> <g>
[15:09] <mamund> not avial on mono C#, tho.
[15:09] <mamund> not equiv i know of on other platforms
[15:09] <mamund> hoping that's just me bing ignorant
[15:09] <darrelmiller> Dealing with complex object hierarchies on a client and trying to sync thos hierarchies with the results of remote queries is a nightmare.
[15:10] <mamund> yep - i don't do that<g>
[15:10] <darrelmiller> Yeah, it's a shame no-one seems to have written a .net client proxy.
[15:10] <mamund> yep
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[15:10] <mamund> one of the "rules" of usability is to make the model either...
[15:11] <mamund> wide and shallow
[15:11] <mamund> or deep and narrow
[15:11] <darrelmiller> Probably because 99% of people doing client side development in .net would never think of trying to use one.
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[15:11] <mamund> this is really the way the WWW works
[15:11] <mamund> well, not just .net, i think.
[15:11] <darrelmiller> I would describe my client as extremely wide and shallow.
[15:11] <mamund> well, i think that's a good thing
[15:12] <darrelmiller> It seems to work for me. :-)
[15:12] <mamund> you don't want hierarchies
[15:12] <mamund> that's my favorite
[15:12] <mamund> when you get to do ing m2m, i think deep and narrow works best (still testing)
[15:12] <darrelmiller> you mean inheritence hierarchies of object graphs?
[15:12] <darrelmiller> s/of /or
[15:12] <mamund> well, yes, you don't want them on WWW
[15:12] <mamund> at least not that you "know"
[15:13] <darrelmiller> Actually IMHO you don't want much of either
[15:13] <mamund> just pass representations; period.
[15:13] <darrelmiller> Agreed. I gotta go run and eat. I'll catch you later.
[15:13] <mamund> in my mind, at least, hierarchies === stateful
[15:13] <mamund> ok
[15:13] <mamund> toodles
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[16:28] mamund is all done rattling cages, so long.
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[00:00] --- Fri Dec 23 2011