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[04:29:05] hey everybody [04:30:38] I am currently checking out http://guzzlephp.org/ as a way to consume "http-based" REST Services. I'm also thinking about a server-side framework which is able to output a guzzle-compatible XML Service Description: [04:30:38] http://guzzlephp.org/docs/guide/service/creating_dynamic_commands/ [04:31:13] Now my question… is there any other (machine-readable) description format for HTTP/REST web services? Do you see a benefit of providing such a thing as a service provider? [04:37:40] hey skurfuerst [04:38:10] hey steve [04:38:21] there is, but it's not really that useful [04:38:23] is the tl;dr [04:38:47] lemme grab a link [04:39:31] http://www.infoq.com/news/2007/06/rest-description-language [04:39:36] is one discussion from a while back [04:39:44] the thing is this [04:40:07] if you're following the hypermedia constraint properly, things like 'a wsdl for rest' dont make a whole lot of sense. [04:40:53] yeah. I agree that a description should be centered around *resources* [04:41:06] however I could imagine that it makes sense to deliver e.g. a JSON schema if the response format is JSON [04:41:09] WADL was one attempt, I'm not sure if it really went anywhere. [04:41:23] of RelaxNG if it is XML [04:41:29] sure, but that's the media type's job, not the service's. [04:42:18] good point. I could just imagine that some kind of standard has already emerged; f.e. to use a certain HTTP header to indicate the URI of the response schema [04:42:52] but that seems not the case [04:42:56] yeah. this is all part of the whole 'self-descriptive messages' thing. [04:43:38] headers aren't generally needed, as schemas (if any) are usually included inside. think about xml, for example. [04:43:52] good point, in XML they are certainly included [04:44:07] we're certainly in agreement about JSON [04:44:14] that's why you get things like collection+json or hal [04:44:27] it's not a hypermedia type, and so isn't good for fulfilling the hypermedia constraint. [04:44:37] yeah, agreed :) [04:45:18] OK, I think that answers some questions… thanks a lot :) [04:46:10] sure! [04:46:28] we're all learning. :) [04:47:40] (I recently did a lot with RDF and the Semantic Web; that's why I am kinda accustomed to fully automatically readable data… I still struggle a little on how to connect these two worlds ;) ) [04:47:53] so to connect RDF/SemWeb with REST principles [04:47:54] ah, interesting! [04:48:08] that's one world that i know just enough about to know that i dont know anything about it [04:48:38] I think they have quite some commonalities, except that SemWeb is mostly read-only while the other is Read/Write [04:48:54] … but it is still a little too fuzzy in my head to write it out clearly … ;) [04:50:18] :) [04:50:27] i just woke up, so I didnt even notice. ;) [04:54:25] ;) ok, thanks a lot for giving me some pointers :) hear you soon [04:57:56] ah, one more thing. Is there a somewhere a standardized format to document REST APIs? Or some boilerplate which one can use as basis... [04:58:03] bigbluehat (~bigblueha@adsl-74-177-96-212.gsp.bellsouth.net) joined #rest. [04:58:35] the closest thing to a standard is this one comment fielding said... [04:58:37] heh [04:58:56] A REST API should spend almost all of its descriptive effort in defining the media type(s) used for representing resources and driving application state, or in defining extended relation names and/or hypertext-enabled mark-up for existing standard media types. Any effort spent describing what methods to use on what URIs of interest should be entirely defined within the scope of the processing rules for a media type (and, in most cases, already [04:59:08] now, there is a convention that is pretty neat. [04:59:29] for example, take one of mine (which is tiny), http://api.hackety-hack.com/ [04:59:41] you can surf it, I use xhtml as the content type [04:59:51] if you check out the source, my link relations are URIs [05:00:00] at those URIs are the descriptions of what the link relations mean [05:00:08] nice :) I've been also thinking about using URIs as link relations [05:00:15] also, XHTML as a content type allows you to write documentation 'in-band' sorta. [05:00:17] so you're just using static HTML, right? [05:00:18] which is kinda neat. [05:00:23] true [05:00:30] trygvis (trygvela@knuth.ping.uio.no) left irc: Remote host closed the connection [05:00:43] it's not technically static, but basically is [05:00:51] incredibly cachable, at least at the root ;) [05:00:55] ;) ;) [05:27:59] trygvis (trygvela@knuth.ping.uio.no) joined #rest. [05:28:46] trygvis (trygvela@knuth.ping.uio.no) left irc: Remote host closed the connection [05:46:59] f00li5h (~f00li5h@unaffiliated/f00li5h) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer [06:02:27] sbanwart__ (~sbanwart@66.6.175.18) joined #rest. [06:21:14] grove (~grove@aggw006.cappelendamm.no) left irc: Quit: grove [06:35:03] skurfuerst (~Adium@88.130.167.60) left irc: Quit: Leaving. [07:01:16] grove (~grove@stdavid.bouvet.no) joined #rest. [07:03:39] grove_ (~grove@aggw006.cappelendamm.no) joined #rest. 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[09:19:58] grove_ (~grove@stdavid.bouvet.no) joined #rest. [09:20:27] nkoza (~NKoza@190.244.122.9) joined #rest. [09:24:03] grove (~grove@aggw006.cappelendamm.no) left irc: Ping timeout: 252 seconds [09:24:17] grove_ (~grove@stdavid.bouvet.no) left irc: Ping timeout: 252 seconds [09:29:29] Wombert (~Wombert@dslb-088-066-204-163.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #rest. [09:41:23] kennethreitz (~kennethre@adsl-99-191-194-225.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) joined #rest. [09:41:51] nuclearsandwich (~nuclearsa@64-79-127-126.static.wiline.com) joined #rest. [09:52:14] peers (~ajp5103@128.118.235.29) joined #rest. [09:52:19] mamund: [09:52:34] here's a good reason that Connect sucks (I just tried to write some middleware with it) [09:52:39] first thing I run into.. [09:52:50] Connect middleware can't modify the response [09:53:01] .... [09:53:03] nuff said. [09:53:15] that is ridiculous [09:54:36] kennethreitz (~kennethre@adsl-99-191-194-225.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) left irc: Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/ [10:09:27] wav1 (~Adium@cpe-70-112-49-11.austin.res.rr.com) joined #rest. [10:11:31] bigbluehat (~bigblueha@adsl-74-177-96-212.gsp.bellsouth.net) joined #rest. [10:21:56] nuclearsandwich (~nuclearsa@64-79-127-126.static.wiline.com) left irc: Remote host closed the connection [10:48:10] ummm...what? http://www.wrml.org/ [10:48:41] lol [10:51:36] sbanwart (~sbanwart@66.6.175.18) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds [10:52:05] that book has bad reviews (rest api) on amazon [10:52:12] for wrml [10:53:02] kennethreitz (~kennethre@204.14.152.118) joined #rest. [10:55:37] yea, dunno how helpful that is [10:55:43] but then I can't find any examples of it either [10:56:24] this is a suggested usage: application/wrml; schema="http://api.schemas.wrml.org/soccer/Player"; format="http://api.formats.wrml.org/application/json" [11:11:01] this is a fine deck, for what it is, but still doesn't say anything about WRML [11:11:02] http://www.wrml.org/docs/decks/rest.pdf [11:20:17] nuclearsandwich (~nuclearsa@adsl-99-66-209-239.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) joined #rest. [11:23:32] bigbluehat (~bigblueha@adsl-74-177-96-212.gsp.bellsouth.net) left irc: Quit: Leaving. [12:01:37] sbanwart (~sbanwart@99-177-126-136.lightspeed.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net) joined #rest. [12:08:00] Wombert (~Wombert@dslb-088-066-204-163.pools.arcor-ip.net) left irc: Quit: Wombert [12:14:11] nkoza (~NKoza@190.244.122.9) left irc: Quit: Client exiting [12:16:42] kennethreitz (~kennethre@204.14.152.118) left irc: Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. [13:10:17] grove (~grove@193.201.9.46.customer.cdi.no) joined #rest. [13:11:48] nuclearsandwich (~nuclearsa@adsl-99-66-209-239.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) left irc: Remote host closed the connection [13:21:18] wav1 (~Adium@cpe-70-112-49-11.austin.res.rr.com) left irc: Quit: Leaving. [13:34:44] grove (~grove@193.201.9.46.customer.cdi.no) left irc: Quit: grove [13:36:43] kennethreitz (~kennethre@204.14.152.118) joined #rest. [14:00:57] peers (~ajp5103@128.118.235.29) left irc: [14:01:51] nuclearsandwich (~nuclearsa@sjs-cc-wifi-1-1-lc-int.sjsu.edu) joined #rest. [14:18:42] nuclearsandwich (~nuclearsa@sjs-cc-wifi-1-1-lc-int.sjsu.edu) left irc: Remote host closed the connection [15:00:59] bradley-holt (~bradley-h@65-183-135-35-dhcp.burlingtontelecom.net) left irc: Quit: bradley-holt [15:23:11] mephju (~mephju@dslb-188-103-192-177.pools.arcor-ip.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 268 seconds [15:25:31] mephju (~mephju@dslb-094-222-015-179.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #rest. [15:31:37] mephju (~mephju@dslb-094-222-015-179.pools.arcor-ip.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 252 seconds [15:34:02] kennethreitz (~kennethre@204.14.152.118) left irc: Ping timeout: 244 seconds [15:34:57] mephju (~mephju@dslb-188-103-170-186.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #rest. [16:34:30] gchristensen (~gchristen@unaffiliated/grahamc) left irc: Quit: Leaving... [17:12:13] Wombert (~Wombert@dslb-088-066-204-163.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #rest. [18:00:46] gchristensen (~gchristen@unaffiliated/grahamc) joined #rest. [18:25:41] Action: mamund pokes his head in [18:45:39] talios (~amrk@akl.smx.co.nz) joined #rest. [18:47:13] KevBurnsJr (~KevBurnsJ@50.0.103.39) left irc: [18:48:31] mamund: i re-created my 'nothing to procedural' maze solver, and grafted it onto the beginning of the git history [18:48:39] so feel free to link to it now, it's pretty solid. [18:48:45] if you didnt already [18:48:47] very cool [18:49:16] because i'm lazy and you're here: are those pages giving off cache headers? I really should be doing that rather than instance variable caching ;) [18:49:39] hmmm [18:49:53] i *think* there are cache headers [18:49:56] shuld be! [18:50:00] ill check it out. [19:00:11] Wombert (~Wombert@dslb-088-066-204-163.pools.arcor-ip.net) left irc: Quit: Wombert [20:13:52] mephju_ (~mephju@dslb-094-222-029-097.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #rest. [20:17:57] mephju (~mephju@dslb-188-103-170-186.pools.arcor-ip.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 268 seconds [20:47:24] sbanwart (~sbanwart@99-177-126-136.lightspeed.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net) left irc: Read error: Operation timed out [20:57:22] scudco (~scudco@cpe-75-85-13-152.socal.res.rr.com) joined #rest. [21:01:13] talios (~amrk@akl.smx.co.nz) left irc: Quit: Bye! [21:17:57] gchristensen (~gchristen@unaffiliated/grahamc) left irc: Quit: Leaving... [21:19:44] gchristensen (~gchristen@unaffiliated/grahamc) joined #rest. 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