#rest on irc.freenode.net 2011-12-07 (txt)

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[04:29] <skurfuerst> hey everybody
[04:30] <skurfuerst> I am currently checking out http://guzzlephp.org/ as a way to consume "http-based" REST Services. I'm also thinking about a server-side framework which is able to output a guzzle-compatible XML Service Description:
[04:30] <skurfuerst> http://guzzlephp.org/docs/guide/service/creating_dynamic_commands/
[04:31] <skurfuerst> Now my question… is there any other (machine-readable) description format for HTTP/REST web services? Do you see a benefit of providing such a thing as a service provider?
[04:37] <steveklabnik> hey skurfuerst
[04:38] <skurfuerst> hey steve
[04:38] <steveklabnik> there is, but it's not really that useful
[04:38] <steveklabnik> is the tl;dr
[04:38] <steveklabnik> lemme grab a link
[04:39] <steveklabnik> http://www.infoq.com/news/2007/06/rest-description-language
[04:39] <steveklabnik> is one discussion from a while back
[04:39] <steveklabnik> the thing is this
[04:40] <steveklabnik> if you're following the hypermedia constraint properly, things like 'a wsdl for rest' dont make a whole lot of sense.
[04:40] <skurfuerst> yeah. I agree that a description should be centered around *resources*
[04:41] <skurfuerst> however I could imagine that it makes sense to deliver e.g. a JSON schema if the response format is JSON
[04:41] <steveklabnik> WADL was one attempt, I'm not sure if it really went anywhere.
[04:41] <skurfuerst> of RelaxNG if it is XML
[04:41] <steveklabnik> sure, but that's the media type's job, not the service's.
[04:42] <skurfuerst> good point. I could just imagine that some kind of standard has already emerged; f.e. to use a certain HTTP header to indicate the URI of the response schema
[04:42] <skurfuerst> but that seems not the case
[04:42] <steveklabnik> yeah. this is all part of the whole 'self-descriptive messages' thing.
[04:43] <steveklabnik> headers aren't generally needed, as schemas (if any) are usually included inside. think about xml, for example.
[04:43] <skurfuerst> good point, in XML they are certainly included
[04:44] <steveklabnik> we're certainly in agreement about JSON
[04:44] <steveklabnik> that's why you get things like collection+json or hal
[04:44] <steveklabnik> it's not a hypermedia type, and so isn't good for fulfilling the hypermedia constraint.
[04:44] <skurfuerst> yeah, agreed :)
[04:45] <skurfuerst> OK, I think that answers some questions… thanks a lot :)
[04:46] <steveklabnik> sure!
[04:46] <steveklabnik> we're all learning. :)
[04:47] <skurfuerst> (I recently did a lot with RDF and the Semantic Web; that's why I am kinda accustomed to fully automatically readable data… I still struggle a little on how to connect these two worlds ;) )
[04:47] <skurfuerst> so to connect RDF/SemWeb with REST principles
[04:47] <steveklabnik> ah, interesting!
[04:48] <steveklabnik> that's one world that i know just enough about to know that i dont know anything about it
[04:48] <skurfuerst> I think they have quite some commonalities, except that SemWeb is mostly read-only while the other is Read/Write
[04:48] <skurfuerst> … but it is still a little too fuzzy in my head to write it out clearly … ;)
[04:50] <steveklabnik> :)
[04:50] <steveklabnik> i just woke up, so I didnt even notice. ;)
[04:54] <skurfuerst> ;) ok, thanks a lot for giving me some pointers :) hear you soon
[04:57] <skurfuerst> ah, one more thing. Is there a somewhere a standardized format to document REST APIs? Or some boilerplate which one can use as basis...
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[04:58] <steveklabnik> the closest thing to a standard is this one comment fielding said...
[04:58] <steveklabnik> heh
[04:58] <steveklabnik> A REST API should spend almost all of its descriptive effort in defining the media type(s) used for representing resources and driving application state, or in defining extended relation names and/or hypertext-enabled mark-up for existing standard media types. Any effort spent describing what methods to use on what URIs of interest should be entirely defined within the scope of the processing rules for a media type (and, in most cases, already
[04:59] <steveklabnik> now, there is a convention that is pretty neat.
[04:59] <steveklabnik> for example, take one of mine (which is tiny), http://api.hackety-hack.com/
[04:59] <steveklabnik> you can surf it, I use xhtml as the content type
[04:59] <steveklabnik> if you check out the source, my link relations are URIs
[05:00] <steveklabnik> at those URIs are the descriptions of what the link relations mean
[05:00] <skurfuerst> nice :) I've been also thinking about using URIs as link relations
[05:00] <steveklabnik> also, XHTML as a content type allows you to write documentation 'in-band' sorta.
[05:00] <skurfuerst> so you're just using static HTML, right?
[05:00] <steveklabnik> which is kinda neat.
[05:00] <skurfuerst> true
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[05:00] <steveklabnik> it's not technically static, but basically is
[05:00] <steveklabnik> incredibly cachable, at least at the root ;)
[05:00] <skurfuerst> ;) ;)
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[09:52] <mikekelly> mamund:
[09:52] <mikekelly> here's a good reason that Connect sucks (I just tried to write some middleware with it)
[09:52] <mikekelly> first thing I run into..
[09:52] <mikekelly> Connect middleware can't modify the response
[09:53] <mikekelly> ....
[09:53] <mikekelly> nuff said.
[09:53] <mikekelly> that is ridiculous
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[10:48] <whartung> ummm...what? http://www.wrml.org/
[10:48] <steveklabnik> lol
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[10:52] <wav1> that book has bad reviews (rest api) on amazon
[10:52] <wav1> for wrml
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[10:55] <whartung> yea, dunno how helpful that is
[10:55] <whartung> but then I can't find any examples of it either
[10:56] <whartung> this is a suggested usage: application/wrml; schema="http://api.schemas.wrml.org/soccer/Player";; format="http://api.formats.wrml.org/application/json";
[11:11] <whartung> this is a fine deck, for what it is, but still doesn't say anything about WRML
[11:11] <whartung> http://www.wrml.org/docs/decks/rest.pdf
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[18:25] mamund pokes his head in
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[18:48] <steveklabnik> mamund: i re-created my 'nothing to procedural' maze solver, and grafted it onto the beginning of the git history
[18:48] <steveklabnik> so feel free to link to it now, it's pretty solid.
[18:48] <steveklabnik> if you didnt already
[18:48] <mamund> very cool
[18:49] <steveklabnik> because i'm lazy and you're here: are those pages giving off cache headers? I really should be doing that rather than instance variable caching ;)
[18:49] <mamund> hmmm
[18:49] <mamund> i *think* there are cache headers
[18:49] <mamund> shuld be!
[18:50] <steveklabnik> ill check it out.
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[00:00] --- Thu Dec 8 2011