#rest on irc.freenode.net 2011-11-23 (txt)

[00:07] grove (~grove@aggw006.cappelendamm.no) joined #rest.
[00:28] KevBurnsJr (~kevburnsj@c-76-126-10-63.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) left irc:
[00:58] felispeskus (896f0dc8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.137.111.13.200) joined #rest.
[00:59] <felispeskus> all this talk about rest being super generic (especially with those <link rels and some other sneakyness...
[00:59] <felispeskus> is there a REST client that can use all this genericness?
[01:00] <trygvis> it's not generic in that sense
[01:01] <trygvis> but there are libraries that read commonly used media types
[01:02] <Jarda> building machine-to-machine stuff is hard
[01:02] <Jarda> even when using rest
[01:02] <Jarda> rest just gives a toolkit
[01:02] <trygvis> integration is hard
[01:02] <trygvis> Jarda: I agree, but I think "toolkit" is a bad word to describe it
[01:02] <Jarda> well, rest gives constraints and guidelines
[01:02] <trygvis> as it implies that there are "hard" tools (aka code) you can use :)
[01:03] <Jarda> I hope there will be tools like generic re-usable hypermedia types
[01:03] <Jarda> and client libraries to use out-of-box
[01:03] <Jarda> but still you have to teach some aspects of your domain to the client
[01:03] <Jarda> but there actually is already examples of this "genericness"
[01:03] <Jarda> and that's search site crawlers
[01:04] <Jarda> if it weren't for shared semantics and understanding of web and http, they wouldn't work
[01:04] <Jarda> and also shared "contracts", like "before you do anything, read robots.txt to see where I don't want you to go looking"
[01:06] <felispeskus> it gives you a protocal
[01:06] <felispeskus> hrm
[01:07] <Jarda> REST isn't a protocol, really
[01:07] <felispeskus> so there's nothing that can, for example, provide a resty client with a "you want these attributes in this form, and to fill them from these locations in the structure you get back from X"?
[01:07] <Jarda> REST is a architecture style
[01:07] <felispeskus> sure it is.
[01:07] <felispeskus> it's not a network protocal, but ti's a system of rules governing behaviour
[01:08] <Jarda> but if you use html/xhtml as your media type, you already have a media type implementation. It doesn't still solve the problem, someone has to teach the client whit what to fill the form parameters
[01:11] <felispeskus> html is great, if you like page-at-a-time dumb terminals
[01:12] <Jarda> and for your original question
[01:12] <Jarda> there is a REST client that can use this
[01:12] <Jarda> it's the combination of human+browser
[01:12] <Jarda> every human browsing the web is a REST client
[01:14] <Jarda> I think HAL is becoming a great hypermedia type
[01:14] <Jarda> but it doesn't take (AFAIK) in consideration creating of new items via templates (or forms, if you want to call them that)
[01:54] ivanfi (~ivanfi@62.159.77.164) joined #rest.
[02:02] tomayac_ (~tomayac@213.61.101.1) joined #rest.
[02:32] <ssedano> Hi, I wonder if this is ok: I can delete a resource, but if this resource has "child elements" I must "force" the delete. Is a query param fine?
[02:41] <Ngarthl> do you need to care?
[03:04] felispeskus (896f0dc8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.137.111.13.200) left irc: Ping timeout: 265 seconds
[03:14] tomayac_ (~tomayac@213.61.101.1) left irc: Quit: tomayac_
[03:14] DracoBlue (~Adium@dslb-088-075-066-254.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #rest.
[03:15] DracoBlue (~Adium@dslb-088-075-066-254.pools.arcor-ip.net) left #rest.
[03:33] Wombert (~Wombert@munich.bitextender.net) joined #rest.
[03:39] <Jarda> I wouldn't do with query parameter
[03:39] <Jarda> instead use request body
[03:40] <Jarda> imo DELETE /foos/1234?also_delete_children=1 isn't very nice
[03:40] <Jarda> maybe if the get would be /foos/1234?inlucde_children=1
[03:40] <Jarda> and the doing a DELETE to it, meh
[03:40] <Jarda> don't know
[03:42] sgronblo (~sgronblo@tuxedo.abo.fi) left #rest.
[03:43] <Jarda> but IMHO request body is fine for DELETE, as I could think of allowing something like DELETE /foos/1234 with a body of include_children=1&soft_delete=1
[03:55] <ssedano> Thank you Jarda
[04:50] vmil86 (~vmil86@88.118.38.91) joined #rest.
[05:54] Wombert (~Wombert@munich.bitextender.net) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
[05:54] Wombert (~Wombert@munich.bitextender.net) joined #rest.
[06:26] kennethreitz (~kennethre@c-24-127-96-129.hsd1.va.comcast.net) left irc: Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/
[06:29] bigbluehat (~bigblueha@adsl-74-177-120-132.gsp.bellsouth.net) joined #rest.
[06:35] grove (~grove@aggw006.cappelendamm.no) left irc: Quit: grove
[06:41] kennethreitz (~kennethre@c-24-127-96-129.hsd1.va.comcast.net) joined #rest.
[07:03] mamund is here (for a while)
[07:06] grove (~grove@stdavid.bouvet.no) joined #rest.
[07:06] <mamund> got a happy email today from my publisher (O'Reilly): "Congratulations, your book has gone to the printer!"
[07:13] grove (~grove@stdavid.bouvet.no) left irc: Quit: grove
[07:19] <ssedano> mamund: What's the title?
[07:20] <mamund> "Building Hypermedia APIs w/ HTML5 and Node"
[07:20] <mamund> http://shop.oreilly.com/product/0636920020530.do
[07:20] <mamund> the details on that page need to be updated (page count is abt 240)
[07:20] <mamund> not sure when the ebook will be released, but proly within a week or so
[07:20] <mamund> print should be avail before the end of the year
[07:21] <ssedano> the title fits my needs hehe
[07:21] <mamund> be warned<g> it's a hypermedia book, not a node book<g>
[07:22] <mamund> i use node in all the working examples (three server app, six client apps)
[07:22] <mamund> but i don't "teach" node or html5.
[07:22] <ssedano> it is hypermedia what I'm interested in
[07:22] <mamund> Thomas Hughes-Croucher's node book is very good
[07:22] <mamund> cool
[07:22] <ssedano> thanks for the warn anyway
[07:23] <mamund> :)
[07:33] twilliams (~twilliams@apache/committer/twilliams) joined #rest.
[07:35] <Ngarthl> mamund: cool! congrats
[07:45] <mamund> Ngarthl: thanks.
[07:45] <mamund> i was able to test out lots of ideas and check assumptions here in this channel
[07:46] <mamund> thanks to everyone here for putting up w/ my constant chatter<g>
[07:48] gchristensen (~gchristen@unaffiliated/grahamc) joined #rest.
[07:48] DracoBlue (~Adium@dslb-088-075-066-254.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #rest.
[07:48] DracoBlue (~Adium@dslb-088-075-066-254.pools.arcor-ip.net) left #rest.
[07:58] apok (~apok@96.24.67.22) joined #rest.
[08:11] <Wombert> mamund: Have you taken a look at what Subbu built yet?
[08:11] <mamund> yes, took it for a short spin a while back
[08:11] <mamund> i like the general idea
[08:14] <Wombert> yeah me too
[08:14] <Wombert> it seems you can send XML in a request body, but not process XML in a response, is that right, mamund?
[08:16] <mamund> hmmmm
[08:16] <mamund> can't recall that
[08:16] <mamund> "not process XML in a response"
[08:17] <mamund> you mean you get XML back but can't pre-process it with his tool?
[08:18] <Wombert> oh wait, it is XML
[08:18] <Wombert> how do they do their mapping I wonder
[08:18] <mamund> yeah, not sure at all
[08:19] <Wombert> in fact
[08:19] <Wombert> uuuh
[08:19] <Wombert> there is a lot of fishy magic there
[08:19] <Wombert> must investigate
[08:19] <mamund> i think subbu launched a discussion group for the tool
[08:19] <mamund> yes, that's what i thought
[08:40] <whartung> morning all
[08:43] <whartung> more pot stirring... http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8157617/should-web-service-be-separate-from-web-site/8233907#8233907
[08:45] grove (~grove@stdavid.bouvet.no) joined #rest.
[08:45] grove (~grove@stdavid.bouvet.no) left irc: Client Quit
[08:59] technoweenie (~technowee@host-86-220-9-69.midco.net) joined #rest.
[09:25] bigbluehat (~bigblueha@adsl-74-177-120-132.gsp.bellsouth.net) left irc: Quit: Leaving.
[09:36] <mamund> whartung: having fun over at so, are we?
[09:36] <whartung> it's the holiday -- what can I do?
[09:38] KevBurnsJr (~KevBurnsJ@50.0.103.39) joined #rest.
[10:21] bigbluehat (~bigblueha@adsl-74-177-120-132.gsp.bellsouth.net) joined #rest.
[10:42] twilliams (~twilliams@apache/committer/twilliams) left irc: Quit: Computer went to sleep
[10:43] ivanfi (~ivanfi@62.159.77.164) left irc: Quit: Leaving.
[10:50] Wombert (~Wombert@munich.bitextender.net) left irc: Quit: Wombert
[10:51] apok (~apok@96.24.67.22) left irc: Quit: apok
[11:03] ryanhouston (~ryanh@pool-108-28-247-169.washdc.fios.verizon.net) joined #rest.
[11:07] mamund is out for the day and proly the rest of the week. enjoy!
[11:10] <whartung> happy holiday mamund
[11:11] <fu-manchu> merry txmas
[11:18] ryanhouston (~ryanh@pool-108-28-247-169.washdc.fios.verizon.net) left #rest ("Ex-Chat").
[11:44] Wombert (~Wombert@dslb-088-065-199-130.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #rest.
[12:22] technoweenie (~technowee@host-86-220-9-69.midco.net) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[14:16] bigbluehat (~bigblueha@adsl-74-177-120-132.gsp.bellsouth.net) left irc: Quit: Leaving.
[15:02] grove (~grove@193.201.9.46.customer.cdi.no) joined #rest.
[15:13] grove (~grove@193.201.9.46.customer.cdi.no) left irc: Quit: grove
[15:59] vmil86 (~vmil86@88.118.38.91) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
[16:17] gchristensen (~gchristen@unaffiliated/grahamc) left irc: Quit: Leaving...
[16:51] bob_sage (~chatzilla@outbound4.ebay.com) left irc: Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 8.0/20111104165243]
[17:06] dreinull (dreieins@217.18.70.225) left irc: Ping timeout: 252 seconds
[17:22] dreinull- (dreieins@217.18.70.225) joined #rest.
[17:35] KevBurnsJr (~KevBurnsJ@50.0.103.39) left irc:
[17:35] gchristensen (~gchristen@unaffiliated/grahamc) joined #rest.
[17:35] gchristensen (~gchristen@unaffiliated/grahamc) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[17:36] grahamc (~gchristen@c-98-218-68-132.hsd1.dc.comcast.net) joined #rest.
[18:37] grahamc (~gchristen@c-98-218-68-132.hsd1.dc.comcast.net) left irc: Quit: Leaving...
[18:51] gchristensen (~gchristen@unaffiliated/grahamc) joined #rest.
[20:37] gchristensen (~gchristen@unaffiliated/grahamc) left irc: Quit: Leaving...
[21:23] talios (~amrk@akl.smx.co.nz) joined #rest.
[21:24] talios (~amrk@akl.smx.co.nz) left irc: Client Quit
[21:39] apok (~apok@75-162-68-76.slkc.qwest.net) joined #rest.
[22:13] grove (~grove@193.201.9.46.customer.cdi.no) joined #rest.
[22:15] grove (~grove@193.201.9.46.customer.cdi.no) left irc: Client Quit
[23:06] grove (~grove@aggw006.cappelendamm.no) joined #rest.
[23:17] apok (~apok@75-162-68-76.slkc.qwest.net) left irc: Quit: apok
[00:00] --- Thu Nov 24 2011