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[08:32:44] Does anyone have any experience in using XHR to retrieve HTML fragments and then merge that into the current page? [08:45:21] a bit of exp, what's up? [08:45:56] I was just wondering if it was possible or whether XHR had some funky objection to retreiving HTML. [08:46:36] I've been thinking about how to make single page JS apps actually work with a hypermedia API. [08:48:01] If I can include a LE link in my HAL document to pull in the display HTML as an XHR request and update the current page then I think I could pull it off. [08:59:52] darrelmiller: sorry, was away [09:00:04] Wombert (~Wombert@dslb-088-065-199-130.pools.arcor-ip.net) left irc: Quit: Wombert [09:00:26] i've pulled HTML via XHR before and don't recall any problems. [09:06:37] darrelmiller: [@mamund(+i)] [2:freenode/#rest(+nt)] [Act: 1] [09:06:37] [#rest] [09:06:45] oops [09:06:54] darrelmiller: http://www.sitepoint.com/quick-tip-xmlhttprequest-and-innerhtml/ [09:07:00] that's better [09:10:39] thx [09:11:06] wow, from 2004. That's a blast from the past. [09:11:48] quest88 (~quest88@c-98-207-205-137.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) left irc: Quit: quest88 [09:14:39] grove (~grove@193.201.9.46.customer.cdi.no) joined #rest. [09:22:40] LOL [09:22:48] proly about when i was doing that, too [09:22:50] LOL [09:39:29] veganista (~chatzilla@95.182.177.253) joined #rest. [09:40:10] im creating an API that should only be used via SSL, what error code is best to return when access via non ssl [09:41:03] an easy way is to always redirect the agent to the https URL [09:41:04] veganista (~chatzilla@95.182.177.253) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer [09:45:00] veganista (~chatzilla@95.182.177.253) joined #rest. [09:50:08] Wombert (~Wombert@89.204.137.107) joined #rest. [10:14:05] ivanfi (~ivanfi@62.159.77.167) left irc: Quit: Leaving. [10:16:55] Wombert (~Wombert@89.204.137.107) left irc: Quit: Wombert [10:16:56] veganista (~chatzilla@95.182.177.253) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer [10:18:25] veganista (~chatzilla@95.182.177.253) joined #rest. [10:54:38] trygvis: this wors for GET, but not for POST. IOW, attempting to POST to http://... when only https://... is allowed. [10:54:38] veganista (~chatzilla@95.182.177.253) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer [10:55:11] in that case, i ussualy return 403 (Forbidden) whenever possible. [10:56:30] veganista (~chatzilla@95.182.177.253) joined #rest. [10:56:35] veganista (~chatzilla@95.182.177.253) left irc: Client Quit [11:09:13] bigbluehat (~bigblueha@adsl-98-71-146-234.gsp.bellsouth.net) left irc: Quit: Leaving. [11:15:32] mrryanjohnston_ (04358972@gateway/web/freenode/ip.4.53.137.114) joined #rest. [11:17:18] let's say i have three resources: cats, dogs, birds. I want to be able to search on these resources. So something like http://server/cats?name=sadie. If I wanted to search the name 'sadie' on birds, cats, AND dogs, but I didn't want to make three separate calls to the cats, dogs, and birds resource, what is the most restful way I could do this? [11:17:31] well, ok, maybe animals?name=sadie [11:17:37] sorry, le tme rephrase [11:18:06] the 3 resources involve 3 different types of entities. person, team, company, let's say. [11:18:50] And I wanted to search for a string of 'fred', where it would pull up people with the name 'fred,' the team with 'fred's team', and the company 'freddy mac' [11:19:12] what would be the best way to respresent this search in a rest resource by only making one call [11:33:16] mrryanjohnston_: if you need an operation that supports searching, the you should expose a public resource (via a URI) for that [11:33:50] mamund: I thought doing something like a verb as a resource was generally not restful? [11:33:52] if your rule for that resource is to search across some "objects" kept on the server, have the server deal w/ that detail; don't expose that to the client [11:33:58] LOL [11:34:08] i did not suggest a _name_ for that identifier [11:34:16] lol i see [11:34:22] you can call it whatever makes sense for your server implementation [11:34:32] so* [11:34:32] so it wso [11:34:49] it would still be something like resource?query=sadie [11:34:57] but resource is just whatever makes sense [11:35:09] sure, that's fine [11:35:25] here's the point i was making... [11:35:40] yeah sorry, continute [11:35:47] this description you have "search company, team, etc." [11:35:58] is a functionality on the _server_ [11:36:12] you don't need to make that part of the identifier, etc. [11:36:19] make sense? [11:36:46] kind of. I see what you're saying as far as not TELLING the user we are searching for company, team, user [11:36:58] and that they just need to know they're getting back data from a resource [11:37:07] I was just confused how people usually name these things [11:37:09] in restful apis [11:37:12] ha! [11:37:15] naming [11:37:32] ok, that's really not a REST item, of course, but always a fun discussion [11:37:43] haha yes [11:37:50] the general rule for REST-ful hypermedia-driven implementations is that [11:38:02] the identifier MUST be meaningful to the _server_ [11:38:24] the identifier SHOULD NOT be meaningful to the _client_ [11:38:30] does that make sense? [11:38:39] identifier meaning the resource name? [11:38:45] like server/identifier/ [11:38:48] ? [11:38:54] http://........?xxxxxxxxx [11:38:56] that [11:39:30] yeah, the whole thing is the identifier, not just the path parts. [11:39:32] make sense? [11:39:33] the whole uri [11:39:36] yep [11:39:41] well, yes. [11:39:49] but shouldn't it also make sense to the client? semantically? [11:40:03] nope [11:40:22] the _rel_ of the link is the semantic value for clients, not the identifier [11:40:29] like look at this would search for a truck with the vid: GET cars.com/trucks?vid=123556 [11:40:42] I think I don't have my terms down :P [11:40:45] rel? [11:40:55] [11:41:08] ah interesting [11:41:23] the _rel_ is the semantic meaning. [11:41:34] the URI is just the identifier for that meaning [11:41:40] this is how hypermedia works [11:41:52] now, _many_ systems do not use the pattern i describe here. [11:42:12] \what i describe is much closer to Fielding's arch model called REST [11:42:43] the advantage of using _rel_ for links (or some other token identifier) [11:43:02] is that it allows servers to change the identifier over time w/o breaking clients [11:43:14] - servers move to new domain [11:43:31] - new technology deployed (.aspx, .jps, .shtml, etc.) [11:43:39] - new folder path, page, etc.) [11:43:50] does this help at all? [11:44:06] yes an no. Very interesting stuff about the rel bits, though. Thanks! [11:44:14] LOL [11:44:18] haha [11:44:34] we're implementing a rest server right now that we won't be plugging into anchor tags [11:44:38] Q: [11:44:43] we'll be calling the urls with things like curl [11:44:47] and asking for json [11:44:53] are you planning on telling your clients how to build URIs? [11:45:08] nope [11:45:32] well [11:45:34] er [11:45:35] haha [11:45:46] if we consider some of our devs clients, then yes [11:46:20] like they'll need to know in order to search all three resources by name, they need to do http://server/search?name=blah [11:46:39] or http://server/person/1234 [11:46:46] ok, i will tell you i do that differently; even for "CURL-ers" [11:46:48] or http://server/person?fname=rob [11:46:56] I'm listening :) [11:47:06] send them a template [11:47:16] if in HTML, i use FORMs [11:47:26] if in JSON i use URI template [11:47:56] for folks doing command line work, you can provide this as an oline document [11:48:11] it's up to you [11:48:20] this is all about choices, not right/wrong [11:48:32] gotcha [11:48:35] good to know. thanks! [11:48:50] you've been a very big help [11:49:18] you're welcome to hang out here anytime; lots of smart folks to talk to here [11:49:32] awesome [11:49:46] I've never built a rest server and this'll be quite an adventure [11:50:03] welcome to the fray! [11:50:04] [11:50:11] haha thanks [11:58:01] bigbluehat (~bigblueha@adsl-98-71-146-234.gsp.bellsouth.net) joined #rest. [12:01:35] mephju (~mephju@dslb-094-222-003-207.pools.arcor-ip.net) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer [12:35:23] mamund: ah, true [12:35:41] but you wouldn't ever POST to a http link as you couldn't have found it anyway :) [12:38:22] trygvis: aha! [12:39:37] but if my super-hypermedia-client had visited your server a few weeks ago and _cached_ a copy of the representation that contained a FORM (with http://..) and then _replayed_ that form attempting to POST after your server was updated to only accept HTTPS, then *boom* goes the dyno-mite! [12:40:56] d'oh [12:41:00] LOL [12:41:15] i knew i could come up w/ some edge-case-y example!!!! [12:42:48] this was kinda interresting if you're making a web robot: http://www.archive.org/web/researcher/ArcFileFormat.php [12:42:58] they seem to have lots of java tools around the format too [12:43:13] (I'm making a small index thingy these days so I'm into this kind of stuff) [13:05:10] mrryanjohnston_ (04358972@gateway/web/freenode/ip.4.53.137.114) left irc: Ping timeout: 265 seconds [13:07:01] bigbluehat (~bigblueha@adsl-98-71-146-234.gsp.bellsouth.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds [13:50:33] wav1 (~Adium@cpe-70-112-49-11.austin.res.rr.com) left irc: Quit: Leaving. [14:04:52] dreinull (dreieins@217.18.70.225) left irc: Ping timeout: 255 seconds [14:14:37] dreinull (dreieins@217.18.70.225) joined #rest. 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[15:41:43] Action: mamund is leaving now, carry on [15:44:00] gchristensen (~gchristen@unaffiliated/grahamc) left irc: Client Quit [16:42:30] Wombert (~Wombert@217.110.126.227) joined #rest. [18:11:16] sbanwart (~sbanwart@66.6.175.18) left irc: Read error: Operation timed out [18:19:00] hey look I made an image to show HAL's information model [18:19:03] http://stateless.co/info-model.png [18:19:48] what is this JSON you speak of ? [18:20:33] oh right [18:20:43] shit [18:20:52] well I've closed photoshop now there's no going back [18:21:03] :-) And that was the end of XML. [18:21:04] plus it's 2am [18:21:58] So you will be pleased to know, today I think I found out how to use HTML in a browser without corrupting my soul. [18:22:16] I'll tell you about it when I come back from my vacation. :-) [18:23:02] lol [18:23:18] if you're rendering html fragments to the DOM from an XHR request [18:23:42] that's called AHAH [18:23:47] also [18:23:55] HA HA. [18:24:07] no [18:24:07] AHAH [18:24:42] like count dracula form sesame street [18:25:01] Async Html And Hal [18:25:14] lol [18:25:58] Sort of like when you have a eureka moment..... AHAH !!!! [18:27:33] so [18:27:40] when do you plan to start using rails ? [18:27:56] Never. [18:28:08] sure, sure. [18:28:12] it's only a matter of time [18:28:47] right I need to sleep it's getting to stupid-o-clock [18:28:50] I'd use node.js before rails. :-P [18:28:54] lol [18:29:03] 'night. [18:30:02] project I'm working on atm has a distributed data store written from scratch with node [18:30:19] it's er.. interesting. [18:31:02] Hey, when you have a shiny new tool. You might as well use it for everything, before the next shiny new tool comes along. [18:31:18] indeed, I do take the piss constantly [18:31:34] it's got an http interface [18:31:57] they wanted some extra processing that was hard to hook in with other datastores that would've worked [18:32:02] so they built one from scratch instead [18:32:14] I got there a bit late to suggest an intermediary [18:32:19] oh well. [18:32:36] KevBurnsJr (~KevBurnsJ@50.0.103.39) left irc: [18:32:56] also [18:33:17] riak makes my brain hurt [18:33:53] so many things make my brain hurt [18:33:56] like not sleeping [18:34:01] or drinking enough water [18:34:05] I have a suggestion. [18:34:18] If it hurts. Don't do it. [18:34:35] what about [18:34:51] pooping giant golden eggs? [18:36:01] right that's definitely my queue to go to bed [18:36:09] Definitely don't do that. [18:36:19] s/queue/cue. [18:36:24] no [18:36:27] I meant queue [18:36:51] I'm not fucking disselectric darrel [18:36:53] You mean like a snooker queue. [18:37:56] tatty-bye [18:38:03] bye! [19:02:19] sbanwart (~sbanwart@99-177-126-136.lightspeed.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net) joined #rest. [19:19:31] Wombert (~Wombert@217.110.126.227) left irc: Quit: Wombert [20:02:09] KevBurnsJr (~kevburnsj@c-76-126-10-63.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #rest. [21:27:18] grove (~grove@193.201.9.46.customer.cdi.no) joined #rest. [21:30:58] grove (~grove@193.201.9.46.customer.cdi.no) left irc: Client Quit [22:12:19] grove (~grove@aggw006.cappelendamm.no) joined #rest. [23:09:28] Wombert (~Wombert@217.110.126.227) joined #rest. [23:37:47] DracoBlue (~Adium@ip-vlan-obckunde-02-217-66-60-14.pixelpark.net) joined #rest. [23:41:47] KevBurnsJr (~kevburnsj@c-76-126-10-63.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) left irc: [23:45:06] DracoBlue (~Adium@ip-vlan-obckunde-02-217-66-60-14.pixelpark.net) left #rest. [23:45:56] DracoBlue (~Adium@ip-vlan-obckunde-02-217-66-60-14.pixelpark.net) joined #rest. [23:47:58] Wombert (~Wombert@217.110.126.227) left irc: Quit: Wombert [00:00:00] --- Thu Nov 17 2011