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[12:36:45] Tim (~tim@mobile-198-228-226-018.mycingular.net) left irc: Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi [13:17:57] gchristensen (~gchristen@unaffiliated/grahamc) joined #rest. [13:18:30] gchristensen (~gchristen@unaffiliated/grahamc) left irc: Client Quit [13:26:59] sbanwart (~sbanwart@99-177-126-136.lightspeed.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net) left irc: Read error: Operation timed out [14:15:40] g0rd0n (~Hal9000@HSI-KBW-109-193-102-211.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) left irc: Quit: Leaving [15:02:42] grove (~grove@193.201.9.46.customer.cdi.no) left irc: Quit: grove [15:54:53] Wombert (~Wombert@dslb-088-065-199-130.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #rest. [16:15:08] gchristensen (~gchristen@unaffiliated/grahamc) joined #rest. [16:28:02] sjtgraham (~steviegra@5ac6753b.bb.sky.com) joined #rest. [16:31:27] hello there [16:31:36] i have some questions about HATEOAS [16:48:58] grahamc (~gchristen@c-98-218-68-132.hsd1.dc.comcast.net) joined #rest. [16:49:26] gchristensen (~gchristen@unaffiliated/grahamc) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer [16:51:41] hey sjtgraham [16:52:03] this channel is sometimes busy, sometimes dead. it depends [16:52:33] np. watching http://vimeo.com/28761654 for now :) [16:53:28] havent watched that one yet [16:55:11] grahamc (~gchristen@c-98-218-68-132.hsd1.dc.comcast.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 248 seconds [16:58:32] gchristensen (~gchristen@unaffiliated/grahamc) joined #rest. [17:00:24] what is your view on PUT vs POST? [17:00:32] whatcha mean? [17:01:32] well, i commonly hear that it's incorrect to use PUT for only sending parameters that have been changed instead of the whole resource [17:01:37] yes. [17:01:42] that is true. [17:01:46] that's what PATCH is for. [17:01:55] it's newish though. [17:01:59] i couldn't find that in the RFC [17:02:06] for HTTP 1.1 [17:02:20] i.e. that that was a incorrect usage of PUT [17:03:07] The PUT method requests that the enclosed entity be stored under the supplied Request-URI. [17:03:21] "HTTP/1.1 does not define how a PUT method affects the state of an origin server" [17:03:46] f the Request-URI refers to an already existing resource, the enclosed entity SHOULD be considered as a modified version of the one residing on the origin server. [17:03:59] those two things together [17:04:02] what you PUT is a replacement. [17:04:24] implying you can in fact send the updated parameters alone [17:04:38] huh? [17:04:41] should be a modified version. [17:04:47] which means, what you send is the new one. [17:06:23] http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5789#page-2 [17:06:28] also, the RFC for patch [17:06:38] The PUT method is already defined to overwrite a resource [17:06:38] with a complete new body, and cannot be reused to do partial changes. [17:06:38] Otherwise, proxies and caches, and even clients and servers, may get [17:06:38] confused as to the result of the operation. [17:07:37] i just think "HTTP/1.1 does not define how a PUT method affects the state of an origin server" implies that the server can just apply the request to the resource rather than replacing it. [17:08:23] i need to reread the rfc i think to be sure [17:09:54] well, let me put it this way. [17:10:09] many, many, many other people have read and interpreted this before. and they all think it doesn't. so.... [17:10:12] know what i mean? [17:10:49] do you mean "you are wrong" ? [17:11:43] yes. :p [17:11:46] in this particular case. [17:11:57] i don't know how many people have actually read the rfc as opposed to regurgitating the opinions of others [17:12:15] that's also true. [17:12:26] i mean, amongst the people who read rfcs, care about standards, that kind of thing [17:12:35] there are some things that are certainly up for debate [17:12:44] but there's no question really about this. [17:12:45] just as i wonder how many people have read fielding's thesis [17:12:48] in particular. [17:12:51] know what i mean [17:12:54] totally. [17:13:06] i am also not always right either. [17:13:12] so i don't think that disproves my point [17:13:21] this room gave me some crap about not mentioning caching in my talk at twilio [17:13:34] which was on purpose, but still :) [17:15:42] gchristensen (~gchristen@unaffiliated/grahamc) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds [17:16:57] so you must think rails is incorrect then? [17:17:25] twilliams (~twilliams@apache/committer/twilliams) joined #rest. [17:17:31] absolutely [17:17:58] rails-core agrees, actually [17:18:00] but they wont change it [17:18:07] said it'd break too much. [17:18:10] which i think is bullshit. [17:18:18] i'll be arguing about it when rails 4 is being worked on. [17:18:18] do they agree they're wrong? [17:18:22] yes [17:18:27] link? [17:18:38] to discussion… [17:18:44] that discussion wasn't public. [17:18:51] they talk in campfire [17:19:51] "HTTP/1.1 does not define how a PUT method affects the state of an origin server." is very clear to me. I absolutely see your interpretation until i read that line [17:24:59] this reminds me of statutory interpretation :D [17:32:59] sjtgraham (~steviegra@5ac6753b.bb.sky.com) left #rest. [17:34:23] sbanwart (~sbanwart@99-177-126-136.lightspeed.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net) joined #rest. [17:35:05] gchristensen (~gchristen@unaffiliated/grahamc) joined #rest. [18:17:44] Wombert (~Wombert@dslb-088-065-199-130.pools.arcor-ip.net) left irc: Quit: Wombert [19:15:41] twilliams (~twilliams@apache/committer/twilliams) left irc: Quit: Computer went to sleep [19:40:26] gchristensen (~gchristen@unaffiliated/grahamc) left irc: Quit: Leaving... 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