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[06:13:03] impl_ (impl@208.86.224.74) left irc: Changing host [06:13:03] impl_ (impl@atheme/member/impl) joined #rest. [06:13:18] bigbluehat (~bigblueha@adsl-74-177-80-238.gsp.bellsouth.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds [06:13:32] Tobbe (~Tobbe@130.235.35.101) returned to #rest. [06:13:42] impl (impl@atheme/member/impl) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds [06:13:44] LiohAu (~LiohAu@mur75-1-81-57-44-204.fbx.proxad.net) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer [06:13:47] Nick change: LiohAu__ -> 64MAA169I [06:13:48] ssedano (~ssedano@unaffiliated/ssedano) joined #rest. [06:14:17] Wombert_ (~Wombert@89.204.153.17) joined #rest. [06:14:25] chilversc (~chris@about/csharp/regular/KeeperOfTheSoul) left irc: Ping timeout: 252 seconds [06:15:14] chilversc (~chris@about/csharp/regular/KeeperOfTheSoul) joined #rest. [06:17:29] Jarda (~jarda@o178.nor.fi) returned to #rest. [06:17:30] alexsdutton (~alex@comma.splice.org.uk) returned to #rest. [06:17:30] lupine_85 (~lupine_85@sharpcoin.org) returned to #rest. [06:17:30] blongden (~blongden@nocarrier.co.uk) returned to #rest. [06:17:30] Mike_L_ (~leonhard@shevek.tamale.net) returned to #rest. [06:17:33] Mike_L_ (~leonhard@shevek.tamale.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 243 seconds [06:18:02] Wombert (~Wombert@port-212-202-106-95.static.qsc.de) left irc: Ping timeout: 276 seconds [06:18:03] Nick change: Wombert_ -> Wombert [06:18:08] bigbluehat (~bigblueha@adsl-74-177-80-238.gsp.bellsouth.net) joined #rest. [06:19:19] I'm obviously doing something wrong. JJ retweeted me without flaming me. [06:22:00] Blazeix (~Blazeix@71.74.190.197) got lost in the net-split. [06:22:00] inimino (~inimino@boshi.inimino.org) got lost in the net-split. [06:23:26] Blazeix (~Blazeix@71.74.190.197) joined #rest. [06:26:53] inimino (~inimino@boshi.inimino.org) joined #rest. [06:27:16] mogsie (~mogsie@62.101.198.35) joined #rest. [06:27:21] Mike_L (~leonhard@shevek.tamale.net) joined #rest. 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[08:08:07] quest88 (~quest88@c-98-207-205-137.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) left irc: Quit: quest88 [08:10:42] Wombert (~Wombert@89.204.153.17) joined #rest. [08:11:20] DracoBlue1 (~Adium@port-212-202-106-95.static.qsc.de) joined #rest. [08:12:37] DracoBlue1 (~Adium@port-212-202-106-95.static.qsc.de) left #rest. [08:15:04] ivanfi (~ivanfi@62.159.77.164) left #rest. [08:18:05] DracoBlue (~Adium@port-212-202-106-95.static.qsc.de) joined #rest. [08:18:07] DracoBlue (~Adium@port-212-202-106-95.static.qsc.de) left irc: Client Quit [08:32:26] Wombert (~Wombert@89.204.153.17) left irc: Quit: Wombert [08:32:54] Action: mamund slides in, sits in the back [08:34:44] Hey there's no need to sit at the back. There is plenty of room up at the front today. Don't be shy. [08:34:56] mikekelly should like this: http://www.mnot.net/blog/2011/10/21/why_esi_is_still_important_and_how_to_make_it_better [08:35:01] darrel: what's the http client of choice atm? [08:35:08] on .NET, that is [08:35:45] for me it's this http://www.nuget.org/List/Packages/HttpClient [08:35:51] I'm using plain WebRequest atm (on a couchdb project) [08:36:03] I guess all clients use that in internals [08:36:20] but for some freaking reason WebRequest.Create() takes like forever on my dev machine at least [08:36:26] (forever being 10-15s) [08:36:26] Pretty much every client I see is a wrapper around HttpWebRequest. [08:36:47] wow. Are you running fiddler? [08:37:17] if there's no daemon that I'm not aware of, then no [08:37:19] I have seen a conflict between fidder and a IE proxy that causes that kind of delay. [08:37:51] Is your server forcing the Http connection to be closed after each request? [08:38:01] it's just the first that takes the time [08:38:54] it's kinda useless to do async requests if the construction of the request class takes a long time [08:38:59] If you use HttpClient and make sure you reuse it between requests then you can be sure that your client is doing everything it should to keep that Http connection live. [08:39:06] yeah. Kinda. [08:39:35] Also, if you use HttpClient make sure you only use the Async methods because the sync ones are going away in the next release. [08:39:40] but I remember I installed some dev tools a while ago to debug a WCF client [08:40:03] they at least made networking to restart while installing [08:40:07] so it might be some debug proxy [08:40:11] it was from microsoft.com [08:40:14] no idea what it was [08:40:33] hehe. The things we accumulate on our dev machines over time. [08:40:52] no time to do a clean install [08:41:10] yeah. Same here. [08:41:22] That's why I'm still on Vista :-( [08:41:33] I'm on Win7 [08:41:42] but that's because I got a new one a while ago [08:41:48] morning all [08:42:10] whartung: Morning! [08:42:28] I like it when whartung shows up because I know it's almost lunch time. [08:42:48] It's almost pavlovian... [08:46:57] oh it has to be Microsoft Network Monitor [08:48:18] no it wasn't [08:50:43] jarda: Can you tell from fiddler where all the time is being spent? [08:51:30] For us it use to be in the "Determine Gateway" metric on the fiddler statistics tab. [08:53:49] darrel: have to try [08:53:54] (maybe tomorrow) [08:54:00] thanks for the tip! [09:11:31] Wombert (~Wombert@89.204.153.17) joined #rest. [09:21:28] KevBurnsJr (~kevburnsj@c-76-126-10-63.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #rest. [09:31:25] KevBurnsJr (~kevburnsj@c-76-126-10-63.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) left irc: [09:44:19] Wombert (~Wombert@89.204.153.17) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer [09:49:50] KevBurnsJr (~KevBurnsJ@50.0.103.39) joined #rest. [10:36:36] grove (~grove@193.201.9.46.customer.cdi.no) left irc: Quit: grove [10:40:27] Nick change: 64MAA169I -> LiohAu [11:08:47] grove (~grove@193.201.9.46.customer.cdi.no) joined #rest. [12:02:28] Hakon|mbp (~hakon1@228.136.16.62.customer.cdi.no) left irc: Quit: Leaving... [12:03:57] Hakon|mbp (~hakon1@228.136.16.62.customer.cdi.no) joined #rest. [12:21:17] detryo (~detryo@80.174.238.115.dyn.user.ono.com) joined #rest. [12:21:19] Hi [12:21:26] hello! [12:22:01] it is a good idea not returning the password (hashed) of the user when returning? [12:22:41] nounces are generelly better than returning something that returns passwords (hashed or not) [12:57:36] LiohAu (~LiohAu@mur75-1-81-57-44-204.fbx.proxad.net) left irc: Quit: LiohAu [13:30:20] So a guy I work with is creating an API and he has a weird architecture that smells fishy to me but I can't really give him any solid reason why he's wrong. [13:30:25] http://pastie.org/2827534 [13:30:36] He has 2 rails apps [13:30:47] one serves purely a JSON api [13:31:25] and the other purely serves an HTML bootstrap necessary to load a javascript application [13:32:14] Action: mamund peeks at the pastie [13:32:16] If it were my system, I would just have 1 service that responds to both HTML and JSON requests [13:33:24] This appears to be the defacto "Web API" architecture these days. I don't like it at all. [13:33:25] it smells like [client] -> [client] -> [server] which irks me [13:33:28] KevBurnsJr: so, he has two "front-ends" to the same data? HTML and API? [13:34:07] oh, he has a JSON api [13:34:23] and then writes an HTML+JS app that "depends" on the JSON api [13:34:33] correct [13:34:42] yeah, what darrel sed [13:34:45] pretty common stuff. [13:34:47] darrel: ditto [13:34:54] I just can't explain why [13:35:12] He's run into two problems so far [13:35:19] IMHO, it leads you to exposing your domain model via your API. [13:35:48] Which I believe is not where you should put a distribution layer. [13:36:00] Problem 1: [client 1] has to upload files, which [service B] then has to forward to [service A] which is messy [13:36:34] Problem 2: [service B] is having trouble consuming [service A] because the default Rails HTTP client doesn't handle chunked encoding well [13:38:28] darrel: [service B] is REALLY thin. There is 1 rails REST resource controller that maps to all URLs and each action in that resource (get,post,put,delete) is 1 line. It just forwards the request. It's really just a gateway. [13:38:57] proxy even [13:39:31] The only reason [service B] exists is to encapsulate the bootstrapping of the HTML/Javascript application. [13:41:20] thank you trygvis ! [13:41:26] detryo (~detryo@80.174.238.115.dyn.user.ono.com) left irc: Quit: leaving [13:43:07] Thanks for the input. Still can't explain why I'm right but glad to know I'm not alone :) [13:43:37] KevBurnsJr: Is there are reason that client 1 can't call to service A directly? [13:44:01] Assuming that client1 html/js gets downloaded from service B. [13:44:01] darrel: Same origin policy. [13:44:04] ahhh. [13:44:13] Don't you love web browsers :-) [13:44:14] yep - that's a common reason for doing this kinda stuf [13:44:34] see, darrel works in an env. where this stoopid policy has no sway' [13:44:44] muhahahahahah.! [13:45:16] when i switch between desktop and web-browser implementations, it just _hurts_ _so_ _much_ [13:57:05] mamund: when does your book hit the shelves? [14:13:11] bigbluehat (~bigblueha@adsl-74-177-80-238.gsp.bellsouth.net) left irc: Quit: Leaving. [14:26:01] Wombert (~Wombert@port-83-236-134-162.static.qsc.de) joined #rest. [14:41:46] DracoBlue (~Adium@dslb-088-075-066-254.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #rest. [14:42:33] DracoBlue (~Adium@dslb-088-075-066-254.pools.arcor-ip.net) left #rest. [14:43:16] DracoBlue (~Adium@dslb-088-075-066-254.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #rest. [14:53:03] grove (~grove@193.201.9.46.customer.cdi.no) left irc: Quit: grove [15:22:40] KevBurnsJr: sorry, was away for a while [15:22:57] i'm told it will be sometime before the end of the year [15:23:00] ebook first, i think [15:23:18] i'm waiting on copyedit/proofread feedback [15:23:26] will make small changes and return [15:23:38] hopefully this part runs pretty fast [15:29:24] DracoBlue (~Adium@dslb-088-075-066-254.pools.arcor-ip.net) left irc: Quit: Leaving. [15:33:49] bigbluehat (~bigblueha@adsl-74-177-80-238.gsp.bellsouth.net) joined #rest. [15:34:10] bigbluehat (~bigblueha@adsl-74-177-80-238.gsp.bellsouth.net) left irc: Client Quit [15:40:45] Wombert (~Wombert@port-83-236-134-162.static.qsc.de) left irc: Quit: Wombert [16:22:18] sbanwart (~sbanwart@99-177-126-136.lightspeed.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net) joined #rest. [17:08:05] darrel (~darrelmil@bas3-montreal50-2925371499.dsl.bell.ca) left irc: Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~ [17:32:53] Action: mamund has been here too long, toodles! [17:53:19] bigbluehat (~bigblueha@adsl-74-177-80-238.gsp.bellsouth.net) joined #rest. [18:40:36] Thanks for the help today [18:40:56] Looking forward to the book [18:41:11] Time to bike home in the dark dark [18:41:14] see yas [18:41:21] KevBurnsJr (~KevBurnsJ@50.0.103.39) left irc: [18:53:51] darrelmiller (~darrelmil@bas3-montreal50-2925371499.dsl.bell.ca) joined #rest. [19:21:49] KevBurnsJr (~kevburnsj@c-76-126-10-63.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #rest. 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