#rest on irc.freenode.net 2011-11-07 (txt)

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[06:19] <darrel> I'm obviously doing something wrong. JJ retweeted me without flaming me.
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[08:32] mamund slides in, sits in the back
[08:34] <darrel> Hey there's no need to sit at the back. There is plenty of room up at the front today. Don't be shy.
[08:34] <mamund> mikekelly should like this: http://www.mnot.net/blog/2011/10/21/why_esi_is_still_important_and_how_to_make_it_better
[08:35] <Jarda> darrel: what's the http client of choice atm?
[08:35] <Jarda> on .NET, that is
[08:35] <darrel> for me it's this http://www.nuget.org/List/Packages/HttpClient
[08:35] <Jarda> I'm using plain WebRequest atm (on a couchdb project)
[08:36] <Jarda> I guess all clients use that in internals
[08:36] <Jarda> but for some freaking reason WebRequest.Create() takes like forever on my dev machine at least
[08:36] <Jarda> (forever being 10-15s)
[08:36] <darrel> Pretty much every client I see is a wrapper around HttpWebRequest.
[08:36] <darrel> wow. Are you running fiddler?
[08:37] <Jarda> if there's no daemon that I'm not aware of, then no
[08:37] <darrel> I have seen a conflict between fidder and a IE proxy that causes that kind of delay.
[08:37] <darrel> Is your server forcing the Http connection to be closed after each request?
[08:38] <Jarda> it's just the first that takes the time
[08:38] <Jarda> it's kinda useless to do async requests if the construction of the request class takes a long time
[08:38] <darrel> If you use HttpClient and make sure you reuse it between requests then you can be sure that your client is doing everything it should to keep that Http connection live.
[08:39] <darrel> yeah. Kinda.
[08:39] <darrel> Also, if you use HttpClient make sure you only use the Async methods because the sync ones are going away in the next release.
[08:39] <Jarda> but I remember I installed some dev tools a while ago to debug a WCF client
[08:40] <Jarda> they at least made networking to restart while installing
[08:40] <Jarda> so it might be some debug proxy
[08:40] <Jarda> it was from microsoft.com
[08:40] <Jarda> no idea what it was
[08:40] <darrel> hehe. The things we accumulate on our dev machines over time.
[08:40] <Jarda> no time to do a clean install
[08:41] <darrel> yeah. Same here.
[08:41] <darrel> That's why I'm still on Vista :-(
[08:41] <Jarda> I'm on Win7
[08:41] <Jarda> but that's because I got a new one a while ago
[08:41] <whartung> morning all
[08:42] <darrel> whartung: Morning!
[08:42] <darrel> I like it when whartung shows up because I know it's almost lunch time.
[08:42] <whartung> It's almost pavlovian...
[08:46] <Jarda> oh it has to be Microsoft Network Monitor
[08:48] <Jarda> no it wasn't
[08:50] <darrel> jarda: Can you tell from fiddler where all the time is being spent?
[08:51] <darrel> For us it use to be in the "Determine Gateway" metric on the fiddler statistics tab.
[08:53] <Jarda> darrel: have to try
[08:53] <Jarda> (maybe tomorrow)
[08:54] <Jarda> thanks for the tip!
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[12:21] <detryo> Hi
[12:21] <trygvis> hello!
[12:22] <detryo> it is a good idea not returning the password (hashed) of the user when returning?
[12:22] <trygvis> nounces are generelly better than returning something that returns passwords (hashed or not)
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[13:30] <KevBurnsJr> So a guy I work with is creating an API and he has a weird architecture that smells fishy to me but I can't really give him any solid reason why he's wrong.
[13:30] <KevBurnsJr> http://pastie.org/2827534
[13:30] <KevBurnsJr> He has 2 rails apps
[13:30] <KevBurnsJr> one serves purely a JSON api
[13:31] <KevBurnsJr> and the other purely serves an HTML bootstrap necessary to load a javascript application
[13:32] mamund peeks at the pastie
[13:32] <KevBurnsJr> If it were my system, I would just have 1 service that responds to both HTML and JSON requests
[13:33] <darrel> This appears to be the defacto "Web API" architecture these days. I don't like it at all.
[13:33] <KevBurnsJr> it smells like [client] -> [client] -> [server] which irks me
[13:33] <mamund> KevBurnsJr: so, he has two "front-ends" to the same data? HTML and API?
[13:34] <mamund> oh, he has a JSON api
[13:34] <mamund> and then writes an HTML+JS app that "depends" on the JSON api
[13:34] <KevBurnsJr> correct
[13:34] <mamund> yeah, what darrel sed
[13:34] <mamund> pretty common stuff.
[13:34] <KevBurnsJr> darrel: ditto
[13:34] <KevBurnsJr> I just can't explain why
[13:35] <KevBurnsJr> He's run into two problems so far
[13:35] <darrel> IMHO, it leads you to exposing your domain model via your API.
[13:35] <darrel> Which I believe is not where you should put a distribution layer.
[13:36] <KevBurnsJr> Problem 1: [client 1] has to upload files, which [service B] then has to forward to [service A] which is messy
[13:36] <KevBurnsJr> Problem 2: [service B] is having trouble consuming [service A] because the default Rails HTTP client doesn't handle chunked encoding well
[13:38] <KevBurnsJr> darrel: [service B] is REALLY thin. There is 1 rails REST resource controller that maps to all URLs and each action in that resource (get,post,put,delete) is 1 line. It just forwards the request. It's really just a gateway.
[13:38] <KevBurnsJr> proxy even
[13:39] <KevBurnsJr> The only reason [service B] exists is to encapsulate the bootstrapping of the HTML/Javascript application.
[13:41] <detryo> thank you trygvis !
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[13:43] <KevBurnsJr> Thanks for the input. Still can't explain why I'm right but glad to know I'm not alone :)
[13:43] <darrel> KevBurnsJr: Is there are reason that client 1 can't call to service A directly?
[13:44] <darrel> Assuming that client1 html/js gets downloaded from service B.
[13:44] <KevBurnsJr> darrel: Same origin policy.
[13:44] <darrel> ahhh.
[13:44] <darrel> Don't you love web browsers :-)
[13:44] <mamund> yep - that's a common reason for doing this kinda stuf
[13:44] <mamund> see, darrel works in an env. where this stoopid policy has no sway'
[13:44] <darrel> muhahahahahah.!
[13:45] <mamund> when i switch between desktop and web-browser implementations, it just _hurts_ _so_ _much_
[13:57] <KevBurnsJr> mamund: when does your book hit the shelves?
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[15:22] <mamund> KevBurnsJr: sorry, was away for a while
[15:22] <mamund> i'm told it will be sometime before the end of the year
[15:23] <mamund> ebook first, i think
[15:23] <mamund> i'm waiting on copyedit/proofread feedback
[15:23] <mamund> will make small changes and return
[15:23] <mamund> hopefully this part runs pretty fast<g>
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[17:32] mamund has been here too long, toodles!
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[18:40] <KevBurnsJr> Thanks for the help today
[18:40] <KevBurnsJr> Looking forward to the book
[18:41] <KevBurnsJr> Time to bike home in the dark dark
[18:41] <KevBurnsJr> see yas
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