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[06:49:32] Action: mamund will be lurking today [06:53:23] Question for the day: Is there any practical difference between application/vnd.foo.v1+xml and application/vnd.foo+xml;version=1 ? [06:53:31] pc1oad1etter (~pc1oad1et@cpe-71-72-121-157.insight.res.rr.com) joined #rest. [06:55:49] some intermediaries might remove the parameter [06:56:43] Ngarthl: Is that allowed or is that a spec violation? [06:57:50] tomayac_ (~tomayac@213.61.101.1) joined #rest. [07:02:57] it can. unless Cache-Control: no-transform is set [07:03:32] and if it does, it MUST add a Warning: header as per 14.46 [07:04:11] but I guess there are non-conforming intermediaries out there [07:04:14] Right but using that logic, it could also update the media type also. No? [07:04:29] it can be changed completely yes [07:05:00] the intermediary can decide to do a lot of weird stuff [07:05:06] So the danger is there regardless of whether you put the version # in the subtype or the parameter. [07:05:42] i guess [07:06:23] grove (~grove@aggw006.cappelendamm.no) left irc: Quit: grove [07:06:35] But I get the point that an intermediary is more likely to unintentially drop a media type parameter than it is to change a media type sub type. [07:10:31] the real question is why do you want to do versioning ;) [07:11:25] I don't. I just was responding to a question where someone was complaining that their version parameter was not being handled properly and it got me wondering if there was any advantage of using a parameter over encoding information in the subtype. [07:11:58] This doesn't just apply to versions. Imagine application/vnd.hal;format=json [07:12:49] if the media type is registed with that parameter, it should be expected to go through [07:29:21] gchristensen (~gchristen@unaffiliated/grahamc) joined #rest. [07:44:10] gchristensen (~gchristen@unaffiliated/grahamc) left irc: Ping timeout: 255 seconds [07:57:29] bradley-holt (~bradley-h@65-183-135-35-dhcp.burlingtontelecom.net) joined #rest. [08:10:58] tomayac_ (~tomayac@213.61.101.1) left irc: Quit: tomayac_ [08:20:02] grove (~grove@193.201.9.46.customer.cdi.no) joined #rest. [08:28:56] bigbluehat (~bigblueha@nmd.sbx08595.greensc.wayport.net) left irc: Quit: Leaving. [08:38:43] grove (~grove@193.201.9.46.customer.cdi.no) left irc: Quit: grove [08:47:41] mornign all [08:48:14] Action: darrelmiller waves [08:48:19] Nick change: darrelmiller -> darrel [08:48:27] o/ [08:57:23] ivanfi (~ivanfi@62.159.77.164) left irc: Quit: Leaving. [09:04:30] quest88 (~quest88@c-98-207-205-137.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #rest. [09:10:45] grahamc (~gchristen@c-98-218-68-132.hsd1.dc.comcast.net) joined #rest. [09:20:34] quest88 (~quest88@c-98-207-205-137.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) left irc: Quit: quest88 [09:20:36] grahamc (~gchristen@c-98-218-68-132.hsd1.dc.comcast.net) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer [09:20:40] grahamc (~gchristen@c-98-218-68-132.hsd1.dc.comcast.net) joined #rest. [09:21:09] grahamc (~gchristen@c-98-218-68-132.hsd1.dc.comcast.net) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer [09:21:09] itrebal (~gchristen@c-98-218-68-132.hsd1.dc.comcast.net) joined #rest. [09:53:15] omarkj (u766@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ndywsruapnartkks) joined #rest. [09:55:40] Hakon|mbp (~hakon1@22.84-49-55.nextgentel.com) left irc: Quit: Leaving... [09:59:57] ssedano (~ssedano@unaffiliated/ssedano) left irc: Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4 [10:05:30] vmil86 (~vmil86@78.57.245.80) left irc: Remote host closed the connection [10:11:16] bigbluehat (~bigblueha@adsl-98-71-175-221.gsp.bellsouth.net) joined #rest. [10:14:58] graste (~irc_freen@ip-vlan-obckunde-02-217-66-60-14.pixelpark.net) left #rest. [10:19:03] DracoBlue (~Adium@ip-vlan-obckunde-02-217-66-60-14.pixelpark.net) left #rest. [10:23:00] Hakon|mbp (~hakon1@228.136.16.62.customer.cdi.no) joined #rest. [10:35:53] itrebal (~gchristen@c-98-218-68-132.hsd1.dc.comcast.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds [10:45:13] KevBurnsJr (~KevBurnsJ@50.0.103.39) joined #rest. [11:14:35] hey guys, only swinging by for a moment, but http://vimeo.com/30764565 if you didnt see it. lemme know what you think... [11:15:43] steveklabnik: http://rest.hackyhack.net/2011-11-02.html#218/h218,219,220,221,222,223 [11:15:51] good job [11:16:13] thanks! [11:16:23] looking forward to the book. [11:16:56] yeah, it's taking me a while, i want to do it right. actually implementing http://api.hackety-hack.com/ while doing it, so I have good examples ;) [11:17:06] :) [11:19:18] so, reading back in that... yeah, i know there are more constraints, but it's always balancing what you include and what you don't, you know? [11:19:33] very true [11:21:26] okay, gotta run, see you guys around! [11:21:57] steveklabnik: feel free to send me an email if you want to talk about this a bit more.... [11:22:15] i am lurking here since i have a big 'deliverable' to squeeze out be the end of my day today [11:23:07] mamund: i will. i'm about to embark on almost 24 hours of travel, so it might take me a bit, but yeah [11:23:21] np. enjoy your trip [11:23:22] mephju (~mephju@dslb-188-102-023-118.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #rest. [11:23:34] thanks, i will. ending in kiev for 5 days. :) never been to europe... [11:24:04] never been to kiev; envious! [11:35:47] grove (~grove@193.201.9.46.customer.cdi.no) joined #rest. [11:39:42] Hakon|mbp (~hakon1@228.136.16.62.customer.cdi.no) left irc: Quit: Leaving... [11:45:42] mhausenblas (~mhausenbl@wlan-nat.fwgal01.deri.ie) left irc: Quit: mhausenblas [11:53:28] pc1oad1etter_ (~pc1oad1et@cpe-71-72-121-157.insight.res.rr.com) joined #rest. [11:53:28] pc1oad1etter (~pc1oad1et@cpe-71-72-121-157.insight.res.rr.com) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer [11:53:29] Nick change: pc1oad1etter_ -> pc1oad1etter [11:54:05] pc1oad1etter_ (~pc1oad1et@cpe-71-72-121-157.insight.res.rr.com) joined #rest. [11:56:32] chilversc (~chris@about/csharp/regular/KeeperOfTheSoul) joined #rest. [11:57:41] pc1oad1etter (~pc1oad1et@cpe-71-72-121-157.insight.res.rr.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds [11:57:41] Nick change: pc1oad1etter_ -> pc1oad1etter [12:04:51] Hakon|mbp (~hakon1@228.136.16.62.customer.cdi.no) joined #rest. [12:29:11] gchristensen (~gchristen@unaffiliated/grahamc) joined #rest. [12:58:39] mephju (~mephju@dslb-188-102-023-118.pools.arcor-ip.net) left irc: Quit: Verlassend [13:06:43] SO QOTD "REST versioning via URL is not only good practice..it's a REST Standard used by most big web players (Facebook, twitter,etc..)" [13:07:06] [13:07:23] [sigh] [13:07:27] ... [13:07:38] I like it [13:07:54] That's like Kentucky Marksmanship [13:08:01] fire the bullet then call the target [13:08:04] STANDARD! [13:08:17] I should ask him to point me to that standard. [13:09:32] pc1oad1etter (~pc1oad1et@cpe-71-72-121-157.insight.res.rr.com) left irc: Remote host closed the connection [13:09:39] pc1oad1etter (~pc1oad1et@cpe-71-72-121-157.insight.res.rr.com) joined #rest. [13:11:03] Oh my. Here we go. http://nick.typepad.com/blog/2011/11/the-long-term-failure-of-web-apis.html [13:12:14] well, this is essentially what i have ben saying for more than a year [13:12:40] this is not a fault of "the Web" but of the people coding up these lame "Web APIs" [13:13:01] The question is, will REST get tarred with the same brush? [13:13:21] meh [13:13:28] don't you get it ? [13:13:41] what nick has documented is that he knows how to write non-distributed apps quite well [13:13:42] This is the "The Long Term Failure of REST APIs" [13:13:46] REST == WEB yo [13:14:05] he is not yet clear on how to write APIs for distributed apps where you don't control everyone [13:14:29] whartung: Forget REST API, Hypermedia API, Hypermedia API, Hypermedia API. [13:14:36] sorry [13:14:42] I didn't know we were Rebranding... [13:15:11] ROFL [13:16:26] whartung: orly? I though REST was xml over http? [13:17:31] I geuss I can stop my REST crusade on SO, and coin the hypermedia-api tag [13:17:35] hypapi? [13:17:46] REST is all about the hyp! [13:17:50] whartung: I already have hypermediapi.com registered ;-) [13:18:12] it was YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [13:18:37] mamund: I told you I had registered it! LOL [13:18:48] yeah, just givin' ya some razz [13:20:10] It's a classic Windscale to Sellafield move. [13:20:19] huh? [13:20:33] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windscale_fire [13:21:26] Yea, darrel, that's exactly what it ...wait.. what? [13:22:18] If you can make people forget about one of the biggest nuclear accidents in history by renaming the place, I think we can put a few bad web api's behind us with a bit of rebranding. :-) [13:22:28] ahhhh [13:22:31] o [13:22:50] Yea, because Sellafield is much more ingrained in the public psyche..... [13:23:33] It is in England :-) [13:23:45] Yea, but they're english :) [13:24:03] Think of the poor sheep. [13:24:15] On the other side of the pond, there's always the Coke/New Coke meme...so... [13:26:00] mamund: On a completely different topic, this whole Microsoft Web API stuff looks like we are starting from scratch again! [13:26:18] yeah, i noticd that; bummer [13:26:26] wait, what? [13:27:14] https://plus.google.com/108611857274279871131/posts/8b4BYmwW9nF [13:27:25] whartung: MS have a library they are building called "Web API". It was built on their WCF stack and mid project, due to organizational changes it looks like the underlying framework is going to completely change. [13:27:38] um..ok [13:27:58] so is the lbirary interface going to change, or just its implementation? [13:28:24] I am horribly (though, I think also, blissfully) ignorant of .NET [13:28:34] meh, it's Http based so that doesn't change. [13:28:56] so this is an implementation detail not really germane to someone using the kit? [13:29:25] Oh, no. It's is significantly going to change anyone's current server implementation. It is still in preview stage though. [13:30:29] whartung: The problem at MS was they have a web stack and a "Enterprise commuinicaton" stack and it was seriously starting to overlap. [13:31:09] This Web API is now jumping from the "Enterprise communication" stack over to the Web stack. [13:45:29] bradley-holt (~bradley-h@65-183-135-35-dhcp.burlingtontelecom.net) left irc: Quit: bradley-holt [14:02:58] bigbluehat (~bigblueha@adsl-98-71-175-221.gsp.bellsouth.net) left irc: Quit: Leaving. [14:46:58] sbanwart (~sbanwart@h137.75.189.173.dynamic.ip.windstream.net) joined #rest. [14:49:11] darrel (~darrelmil@bas3-montreal50-2925371499.dsl.bell.ca) left irc: Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~ [14:58:33] Action: mamund is done for the day.... [14:59:02] i'll be traveling to Detriot, MI for 1DevDays Fri/Sat. might not check in tomorrow. [14:59:10] peaceout, ya'll! [15:05:44] sbanwart (~sbanwart@h137.75.189.173.dynamic.ip.windstream.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 276 seconds [15:13:02] steveklabnik: talk was legit, gj :) [15:18:05] tnks (~tnks@cpe-68-203-16-201.austin.res.rr.com) joined #rest. [15:18:30] Curious. Is there a proper way to indicate to the client that you're using WebDav extensions? [15:18:32] steveklabnik: fwiw I'm currently building a renderer for HAL [15:18:56] for rails/tilt [15:26:37] Hakon|mbp (~hakon1@228.136.16.62.customer.cdi.no) left irc: Quit: Leaving... [15:35:13] grove (~grove@193.201.9.46.customer.cdi.no) left irc: Quit: grove [15:52:37] pc1oad1etter_ (~pc1oad1et@cpe-71-72-121-157.insight.res.rr.com) joined #rest. [15:54:29] pc1oad1etter (~pc1oad1et@cpe-71-72-121-157.insight.res.rr.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 276 seconds [15:54:30] Nick change: pc1oad1etter_ -> pc1oad1etter [17:22:18] sbanwart (~sbanwart@99-177-126-136.lightspeed.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net) joined #rest. [17:38:26] gchristensen (~gchristen@unaffiliated/grahamc) left irc: Quit: Leaving... [17:48:45] KevBurnsJr (~KevBurnsJ@50.0.103.39) left irc: [18:08:27] gchristensen (~gchristen@unaffiliated/grahamc) joined #rest. 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