[00:15:36] DracoBlue (~Adium@dslb-088-075-193-199.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #rest. [00:15:41] DracoBlue (~Adium@dslb-088-075-193-199.pools.arcor-ip.net) left #rest. [00:22:48] grove_ (~grove@aggw006.cappelendamm.no) joined #rest. [00:22:49] grove (~grove@aggw006.cappelendamm.no) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer [00:22:49] Nick change: grove_ -> grove [00:55:00] graste (~irc_freen@ip-vlan-obckunde-02-217-66-60-14.pixelpark.net) joined #rest. [02:25:41] ivanfi (~ivanfi@62.159.77.165) joined #rest. [04:18:36] grove (~grove@aggw006.cappelendamm.no) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer [04:18:40] grove (~grove@aggw006.cappelendamm.no) joined #rest. [04:55:21] Hakon|mbp (~hakon1@c51009CE2.inet.catch.no) joined #rest. [04:56:51] Hakon|mbp (~hakon1@c51009CE2.inet.catch.no) left irc: Client Quit [04:57:10] Hakon|mbp (~hakon1@c51009CE2.inet.catch.no) joined #rest. [05:22:22] Hakon|mbp (~hakon1@c51009CE2.inet.catch.no) got netsplit. [05:22:23] steveklabnik (steve@nat/xomb/x-dcpntzhekbsoibnx) got netsplit. [05:22:24] Ngarthl (erlenha@colargol.tihlde.org) got netsplit. [05:25:44] bigbluehat (~bigblueha@nmd.sbx08595.greensc.wayport.net) joined #rest. [05:26:02] Hakon|mbp (~hakon1@c51009CE2.inet.catch.no) returned to #rest. [05:26:02] steveklabnik (steve@nat/xomb/x-dcpntzhekbsoibnx) returned to #rest. [05:26:02] Ngarthl (erlenha@colargol.tihlde.org) returned to #rest. [05:44:44] Here is a an interesting thing to peruse during your morning coffee. http://www.wrml.org/ [05:51:07] grove (~grove@aggw006.cappelendamm.no) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer [05:51:10] grove_ (~grove@aggw006.cappelendamm.no) joined #rest. [06:24:10] bradley-holt (~bradley-h@65-183-135-35-dhcp.burlingtontelecom.net) joined #rest. [06:39:16] mephju (~mephju@dslb-188-103-196-203.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #rest. [06:52:53] grove (~grove@aggw006.cappelendamm.no) joined #rest. [06:52:53] grove_ (~grove@aggw006.cappelendamm.no) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer [06:57:54] mamund: You reviewed this book?..and didn't tell us about it :-) http://www.amazon.com/REST-Design-Rulebook-Mark-Masse/dp/1449310508/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1320069102&sr=8-1 [07:15:57] sbanwart (~sbanwart@h137.75.189.173.dynamic.ip.windstream.net) joined #rest. [07:22:55] grove (~grove@aggw006.cappelendamm.no) left irc: Quit: grove [07:25:39] bigbluehat (~bigblueha@nmd.sbx08595.greensc.wayport.net) left irc: Quit: Leaving. [07:30:47] bigbluehat (~bigblueha@nmd.sbx08595.greensc.wayport.net) joined #rest. [07:31:15] sbanwart (~sbanwart@h137.75.189.173.dynamic.ip.windstream.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 252 seconds [07:34:21] sbanwart (~sbanwart@h137.75.189.173.dynamic.ip.windstream.net) joined #rest. [07:36:29] gchristensen (~gchristen@unaffiliated/grahamc) joined #rest. [07:57:07] sbanwart (~sbanwart@h137.75.189.173.dynamic.ip.windstream.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 256 seconds [08:12:35] grove (~grove@193.201.9.46.customer.cdi.no) joined #rest. [08:32:09] Action: mamund shows up [08:32:25] darrel: not a fan of Mark Masse's approach [08:32:38] but i suspect it will be rather popular w/ lots of web-devs out there [08:43:56] mamund: :-) Yeah, I saw your tweet. [08:45:13] Mark is a good guy [08:45:42] he's got a WSDL/WADL thing he calls WRML that he wants to promote [08:45:52] about 1/2 the book is about WRML [08:51:05] KevBurnsJr (~KevBurnsJ@50.0.103.39) joined #rest. [08:55:33] Morning all [08:56:43] bigbluehat (~bigblueha@nmd.sbx08595.greensc.wayport.net) left irc: Quit: Leaving. [08:58:19] yo! [08:58:43] good morning [09:07:21] Nick change: gchristensen -> itrebal [09:10:42] ivanfi (~ivanfi@62.159.77.165) left #rest. [09:23:44] sbanwart (~sbanwart@h137.75.189.173.dynamic.ip.windstream.net) joined #rest. [09:30:57] sbanwart (~sbanwart@h137.75.189.173.dynamic.ip.windstream.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 276 seconds [09:44:37] itrebal (~gchristen@unaffiliated/grahamc) left irc: Quit: Leaving... [09:45:37] bigbluehat (~bigblueha@adsl-98-71-139-247.gsp.bellsouth.net) joined #rest. [09:59:57] gchristensen (~gchristen@unaffiliated/grahamc) joined #rest. [10:03:01] Action: mamund does a happy dance! [10:03:11] just got word the book is officially in final production [10:03:53] not sure of the release schedule, but teh ebook will proly be avail in Nov w/ print before the end of the eyar [10:04:31] graste (~irc_freen@ip-vlan-obckunde-02-217-66-60-14.pixelpark.net) left #rest. [10:16:18] mamund: you rock! [10:36:27] gchristensen (~gchristen@unaffiliated/grahamc) left irc: Quit: Leaving... [10:40:20] sbanwart (~sbanwart@h137.75.189.173.dynamic.ip.windstream.net) joined #rest. [10:46:34] mamund: Congrats! [10:58:43] sbanwart (~sbanwart@h137.75.189.173.dynamic.ip.windstream.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 245 seconds [10:59:23] gchristensen (~gchristen@unaffiliated/grahamc) joined #rest. [10:59:56] Action: mamund is back after a mtg [11:00:23] well, i'm a pretty happy camper; a bit 'twitchy' still (pouring over the last draft for errors, etc.) [11:00:30] but looking forward to closing this one up soon. [11:00:58] just got my office "production process" email from O'Reilly today. [11:04:48] sbanwart (~sbanwart@h137.75.189.173.dynamic.ip.windstream.net) joined #rest. [11:07:17] what does that mean mamund [11:25:14] hey [11:25:27] how should I represent hypermedia with json? :/ [11:26:10] I thought about "links":{"self":"/foo/bar/baz"} [11:26:14] but hmm.. meh [11:26:34] there is of course HAL and friends [11:27:23] There is, of course, HAL...and friends. [11:28:07] Jarda: i've been adding HAL-specific meta data to some GitHub API stuff [11:28:28] Jarda: http://developer.github.com/v3/pulls/ look at the _links property [11:28:45] just a small subset of HAL i guess [11:29:03] yeah, ok [11:29:06] i've got a working ruby client to navigate that though, i think. hopefully in a week or so I'll have a working github api client [11:29:59] technoweenie: you work for github? that must be great :) [11:30:17] kennethreitz (~kennethre@c-24-127-96-129.hsd1.va.comcast.net) joined #rest. [11:31:08] everything I currently need, is to create links to resources from a collection [11:31:44] I have [{...},{...}...] where {...} is one resource [11:32:01] and I need to know where it can be saved to [11:32:09] yea i'm going with a _links property on each resource [11:32:35] here's some example code to navigate such an api: https://github.com/technoweenie/sawyer/blob/master/example/client.rb [11:32:38] yeah, I thought of "links":{"self":"/products/123"} [11:32:51] but but, that _links seems more verbose, I like! [11:33:04] I'm using l [11:33:08] client-side javascript [11:33:10] i'm only using that because HAL is, and it separates meta properties from resource properties [11:33:11] to use this API [11:33:26] i'd suggest making the value of the links hash an object too [11:33:31] so you can specify method too [11:33:44] sbanwart (~sbanwart@h137.75.189.173.dynamic.ip.windstream.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds [11:34:15] I think it would behoove the community to push behind HAL and downplay ad hoc formats today. Better to figure out what is wrong with HAL and fix it than keep coming up with new ones. [11:34:39] whartung: unfortunately i have an existing api, so... [11:34:52] sure [11:34:57] version it :D [11:35:13] what's the "official" place to read about hal? [11:35:35] whartung: i am. but im not putting sub resources in a _resources property [11:36:18] http://stateless.co/hal_specification.html [11:36:30] https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/hal-discuss [11:36:43] no one will be able to use that without breaking their existing api [11:36:52] hey this is much simpler now [11:37:02] i dont see any benefit to adding _embedded [11:37:36] oh god now the link properties themselves dont have _ prefixes [11:38:07] hmm.. [11:38:12] well i guess i'll have to make that change now :) [11:38:18] I would need to write a parser [11:38:21] but that's cool [11:38:31] I'm using backbone.js on my webapp [11:38:52] Jarda: i intend to write a js version of sawyer too [11:39:08] well for node... but i could probably have the core of it client-side js compatible [11:39:47] whartung: i'm going to do what i can to keep close to the HAL spec though. as long as it doesnt change that much again, it'll be really close [11:41:12] sure [11:41:51] i like this though. i looked at it about a week ago and it had some weird namespace stuff [11:41:52] my basic point is simply in future work, if I ever see someone asking how to represent something, I'm just going to point them to HAL. [11:42:09] Just like I point folks to AWS that want to do REST authorization [11:42:10] i'm also sending some links in a Link header too in case the response is an Array of resources [11:42:16] fair enough [11:43:46] yeah, Backbone.js has a sync-adapter in between the model+collection layer and the service [11:44:06] because the primary benefit of the human web, is HTML, and the popular clients that understand it. With everyone and their brother, umm, "making shit up" (that's a technical term), it's even more difficult to get any reuse out of the services. HAL seems to have enough traction to be worth betting upon for the near term. [11:44:30] notably for machine clients [11:44:34] so it could be very re-usable to map models to hal representation [11:45:36] and now work can begin on micro-formats within HAL. [11:47:04] yeah I have to figure out if HAL would be good also for being the backend of a rich web app [11:47:04] is hal going to change much more? [12:01:41] mephju (~mephju@dslb-188-103-196-203.pools.arcor-ip.net) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer [12:13:55] Hakon|mbp (~hakon1@c51009CE2.inet.catch.no) left irc: Quit: Leaving... [12:36:37] grove (~grove@193.201.9.46.customer.cdi.no) left irc: Quit: grove [12:44:48] Hakon|mbp (~hakon1@228.136.16.62.customer.cdi.no) joined #rest. [12:52:52] mamund: you totally were saying start from the beginning [12:54:08] technoweenie: no hal won't change much more [12:54:19] i like the current version much better :) [12:54:25] :) [12:54:31] I started with xml [12:54:32] do all hal responses get wrapped in an object [12:54:38] even collections? [12:54:46] technoweenie: yeah a colelction is a resource so it's an object [12:54:50] {"_embedded": [ {}, {} ]} [12:54:57] man i still hate embedded [12:55:01] using arrays sounds great but it's really restrictive [12:55:13] yup [12:55:22] technoweenie: I could change it so that it's any object with a _link.self [12:55:31] thats what my shit does [12:55:32] mikekelly: not seeing that at all. [12:55:47] it just parses everything and assumes every hash with _links is a resource [12:56:32] the issue with that is it's less explicit, to read, and distinguish what is embedded state [12:56:36] and what is just resource state [12:57:57] shrug [12:58:01] idd [12:58:12] any thoughts on schema? i was thinking i'd add a 'schema' property to link rels [12:58:40] no I wouldnt' do that presonally [12:59:19] _links: {comments: {href: /comments, schema: /schemas/comment, methods: "get,post"} [12:59:28] I'd have URIs for my link rels and provide the schema media type from there [12:59:46] so you have to make an extra get to know how to fill the form out [13:00:12] no, you know it from the rel [13:00:32] yea i suppose [13:00:37] _links: { user: { href: "/foo" } } [13:00:43] myapp.com/rels/user [13:00:56] that was the purpose of the namespace shit before btw [13:01:07] so you could do foo:user [13:01:24] instead I've just assumed each app will specify the URI prefix in documentation [13:01:35] and leave the snazzy CURIE stuff to xml people [13:02:42] myapp.com/rels/user (Accept: application/schema+json) [13:02:50] or whatever the content type is I dunno :) [13:04:36] technoweenie (~technowee@host-86-220-9-69.midco.net) left irc: Remote host closed the connection [13:04:47] lol [13:04:49] :) [13:06:06] mamund: how can you start from anywhere other than a beginning ? [13:19:07] lol [13:19:14] you're kidding, right? [13:19:24] you can "start" lots of places [13:19:38] you can "pick up where you left off" [13:19:47] you can "jump to the ending" [13:19:57] you can "start in the middble" [13:20:01] [13:24:30] For example, if you start in the middle, it's called "cheating", but you can do it :) [13:26:35] Bhior (~fabiano@gateway/tor-sasl/bhior) joined #rest. [13:26:55] bigbluehat (~bigblueha@adsl-98-71-139-247.gsp.bellsouth.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 252 seconds [13:27:13] Bhior (~fabiano@gateway/tor-sasl/bhior) left #rest. [13:30:02] whartung: LOL! unless you got halfway through the book, placed your marker there, and returned days later [13:36:05] Action: mamund is off to hand out candy to little ones. bwah-hah-hah-hah-hah.... [13:36:25] razor blades and rocks! It' trick or trick time! 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[17:51:34] KevBurnsJr (~kevburnsj@c-67-169-94-104.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #rest. [18:32:20] Hakon|mbp (~hakon1@228.136.16.62.customer.cdi.no) left irc: Quit: Leaving... [18:51:12] VSpike (~johncc@host217-41-3-16.in-addr.btopenworld.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds [19:05:27] VSpike (~johncc@host217-41-3-16.in-addr.btopenworld.com) joined #rest. [20:34:08] f00li5h (~f00li5h@unaffiliated/f00li5h) left irc: Ping timeout: 248 seconds [20:35:40] sbanwart (~sbanwart@99-177-126-136.lightspeed.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds [20:47:55] f00li5h (~f00li5h@unaffiliated/f00li5h) joined #rest. [20:49:17] f00li5h (~f00li5h@unaffiliated/f00li5h) left irc: Remote host closed the connection [20:49:25] f00li5h (~f00li5h@unaffiliated/f00li5h) joined #rest. [20:50:02] tef (tef@void.printf.net) joined #rest. [20:50:55] question: is there any existing work or experiments on using html5 microdata for hypermedia driven apis ? [20:51:36] (also, hello) [21:03:36] mikekelly (mikek@s3x0r.biz) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer [21:03:41] mikekelly (mikek@s3x0r.biz) joined #rest. [21:03:43] mamund (mamund@obsidian.nullshells.net) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer [21:04:15] mamund (mamund@69.163.32.100) joined #rest. [21:04:16] #rest: mode change '+o mamund' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. [21:10:21] agorman (~andy@c-24-130-89-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) left irc: Read error: Operation timed out [21:10:42] agorman (~andy@c-24-130-89-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #rest. [21:11:37] I think there is an inconsistency in HAL [21:12:16] nah, maybe not [21:12:26] but the basket items in example is kinda weird [21:13:06] as there is "items" key, while a level up there is "order" [21:13:12] I mean the singular vs. plural [21:13:49] maybe I just don't get the semantics [21:14:22] yeah, maybe it is that the items is just one property of the basket resource [22:07:08] meh, "items" is a property of the embedded representation, so it's up to the app, whereas "order" is a rel and should probably be singluar [22:07:24] looks right to me [22:16:23] yup [22:16:29] that's what I figured out [22:16:35] that's the problem of json, IMO [22:16:49] it isn't human readable, IMO [22:17:02] but it might be that I've spoiled myself with XML [22:26:35] grove (~grove@193.201.9.46.customer.cdi.no) joined #rest. [22:30:42] grove (~grove@193.201.9.46.customer.cdi.no) left irc: Client Quit [23:13:26] grove (~grove@aggw006.cappelendamm.no) joined #rest. 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